Gordon Hervela Interview

Gordon Hervela Interview

Transcript at 0 seconds: (00:00)

INTERVIEWER (I): This is an oral interview with Gordon Hervela in his home in Howell, Michigan on February 26, 1989. He was born on February 28, 1917 in Calumet, Michigan.

GORDON HERVELA (GH): My dad’s name was Gus, Gustav Hervela, and my mother was Charlotte. Neigardt was her maiden name.

I: Neigardt. Were they both originally from Calumet?

GH: Well, they were from the Copper Country, yes.

I: Okay. Their parents, where were they originally from?

GH: Well, my father’s parents were from Finland, and my mother’s parents were from Norway and Sweden.

I: Were they? Okay. So, the… They came over when they were very young, or…?

GH: Oh, yeah. They were both--both couples were very young when they came over and settled in the Copper Country and worked in the copper mines. And Grandpa Neigardt, he stayed up there and cleared several sections of land that he had bought from Calumet and Hecla [Mining Company] and had a big farm. And then of course, Grandpa Hervela, he worked up there for quite a while, and then he moved to Detroit and he went to work at Ford’s.

I: Oh, so he wasn’t a miner all of his life, Grandpa Hervela?

GH: No, no.

I: He was a… The grandmothers, were they both farm and…?

GH: Well, Grandma Hervela, she was always in town because the Hervelas always lived in town, but Grandma Neigardt, why she stayed right on the farm all the time.

I: Big farm?

GH: Yeah.

I: The Hervela side, your father’s, was it a small family or a very large?

GH: No, there was thirteen kids all together.

I: Thirteen? How nice. (??) How nice. (??) Geeze. That must have been…

GH: And then on my mother’s side, the Neigardt side, my grandpa had this big farm up there, and he always figured that with all the acreage that he kept acquiring that eventually he’d have boys that’d help him work it. But as luck would have it, Grandpa Neigardt wound up with nine girls and one boy, [both laugh] so he didn’t get much help on the farm.

I: Yeah. He didn’t get… So, it means he must have had some pretty tough daughters then?

GH: Well, most of them were used for picking potato bugs and raking hay…

I: Uh-huh.

GH: …and then doing chores around the house and helping Grandma.

I: So was the boy the oldest or a middle or was he…?

GH: Uncle Art, he was, yeah, he was the oldest.

I: He was the oldest?

GH: Yeah, yeah.

I: Okay. So, you said that the Hervelas moved down to Detroit? Is that…?

GH: Yeah.

I: Was he a copper—was he a miner for—like, for a very long time, or did he…?

GH: Why, that I couldn’t tell you.

I: Couldn’t tell you. But he decided to move to Detroit?

GH: Yeah. Yeah, because they heard about Ford Motor Car Company hiring, starting to pay five dollars a day, you know, and that was big money so they all went to Detroit.

I: Do you remember--did you ever know a date when he might have went down?

GH: No, no.

I: No, alright. No idea.

GH: See, because they had a big strike up there in the copper mines and then after--but before the strike was over with a lot of the mines start shutting down because they couldn’t afford to pay the wages that they…that they were demanding.

I: Yeah.

GH: There wasn’t that much profit in copper, and then of course that caused the people to look elsewhere for employment, you know, and move away.

I: And then Detroit was a big place to go.

GH: Yeah, Detroit and Chicago, Milwaukee. They went all over.

I: Did they?

GH: Yeah.

I: And the Neigardts weren’t miners. They were just basically…

GH: Oh, he was a miner.

I: Was he a miner?

GH: Grandpa was a miner, worked in the mines, and then he worked the farm too.

I: Did he? He worked both?

GH: Yeah.

I: Okay, your father and mother, were they farmers, miners? What year…?

GH: My dad, as far as I know, why he was…he was a salesman. He sold… He worked for a company, Pacific Tea Company.

I: Was this in…?

GH: Coffee and tea. That was in Calumet.

I: In Calumet.

GH: That’s as far as I know about his employment.

Transcript at 4 minutes and 34 seconds: (4:34)

I: Mm-hm. So you were born in Calumet, we said. Did you spend all your time in Calumet? Was that where you spent most your life, or…?

GH: No, it was all away from Calumet.

I: Oh, okay.

GH: Yeah, Calumet is just a… It’s just a spot on the map that that’s where I was born.

I: It was where you were born.

GH: Yeah. Yeah.

I: So where did you end up after Calumet, your first…?

GH: Detroit.

I: Detroit.

GH: Yeah, that was… That’s really my home, Detroit.

I: Okay, what was the age when you first moved to Detroit with your parents?

GH: I’d say I was about three.

I: Three.

GH: Yeah.

I: Okay. Now when you went down at three, was that with your mother and father?

GH: Yeah.

I: Okay. And was your father still working for the…?

GH: No, I don’t know what he was doing then.

I: Oh? He just went down?

GH: Yeah, he was--he might have worked in a factory, or I don’t know what he did.

I: Okay.

GH: I never did know.

I: Okay. I know that your father left. Now, what age was that?

GH: When I was still about three he took off.

I: Three, he left.

GH: Yeah, yeah.

I: Did you stay in Detroit then with your mother?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I: Stayed with your mother. Now, you had a sister too, right?

GH: Yeah, Dorothy.

I: Dorothy. And she was younger than you, or…?

GH: No, she was older than me. Fifteen months older.

Transcript at 5 minutes and 48 seconds: (5:48)

I: Okay, and so you and her, did you--I know there was a time when you did go back to Calumet.

GH: Oh, yeah. That was when I was about probably eight, seven or eight.

I: Can you tell me why you had--why you went back to Calumet?

GH: Well, we went back in the summertime to help them with the hay making, and then my mother took sick, so they shipped her back to Detroit and left me there with my Grandpa Neigardt and Grandma Neigardt.

I: Okay, you stayed with the Neigardts. But the Hervelas were still down in Detroit.

GH: Yeah.

I: And the Neigardts were still farming up here?

GH: Yeah. Right.

I: Now, was this--you said you went for the summers. Was this something you did…you did a lot, or…?

GH: Well, that was a…that was a thing of the times that when it was haymaking time, why, all the kids tried to get back home with their families to help the parent—the grandparents out.

I: Uh-huh. So, at eight o’clock--at eight years old, excuse me--you stayed in Calumet. How long did you stay in Calumet with the Neigardt clan?

GH: Oh, it must have been a couple of years I stayed up there with Grandma and Grandpa Neigardt.

I: And that was on the farm?

GH: Yeah.

Transcript at 6 minutes and 56 seconds: (6:56)

I: That--was that… Was life on the farm at that time pretty rough for a young boy, or…?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Grandma, she was really persnickety about her cow barn, and she wouldn’t let the hired men in there or my grandpa, and she had to milk the cows herself.

I: Oh. Just her?

GH: And the only exception to the rule was that she taught me how to milk, so I used to help her milk cows…

I: Yeah?

GH: …and carry the milk in and run the butter churn and run the separator and then the butter churn, do all those chores that a normal farm boy would do.

I: Yeah, so at eight years old you had some pretty big responsibilities then? You’re…

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Transcript at 7 minutes and 43 seconds: (7:43)

I: Oh, yeah. That’s… I know Calumet can be a cold area. What was it like for you in the winter time?

GH: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I had to ski to school or else snowshoe.

I: Did ya?

GH: Yeah. I went to Dover School. That was about probably about a mile and a half from Grandpa Neigardt’s farm.

I: So you had to--every morning you did that? Ski or snowshoe a mile and a half to school?

GH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I: Just you or you had--was your sister there at the time?

GH: No, no.

I: She was still in Detroit?

GH: Just myself.

I: Just yourself. Okay. I’m trying to think of some things. Anything else about the farm at that time that was used? Do you have any memories?

GH: Oh, Grandpa taught me how to ski, and we had a big red barn, and outside the barn was the hill. When school started, Grandpa said, “Well, you better learn how to ski ‘cause that’s how you’re gonna have to go to school.” So, he made a track for me, and then I took my grandmother’s Norwegian skis, and I used those all the time.

I: Oh, yeah.

GH: Yeah. And that’s how I learned to ski…

I: Yeah.

GH: …down the hill on the track that Grandpa made.

Transcript at 8 minutes and 55 seconds: (8:55)

I: Uh-huh. I imagine--I know that the Norwegians and Swedish are known for their skiing.

GH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.

I: I imagine your grandparents were quite the skiers at that time as a way to get around. I remember you telling me--this is kind of a side-track--but when you were a young boy, you told me a story about you got bit by the nose on a goose. Was that--by a goose. Was that up at the farms?

GH: No, I think probably that was in Armada.

I: Oh, that was?

GH: Yeah.

I: Okay.

GH: Not up there.

I: Not up there. Okay, that was a side track. We can erase it. But so you were there till eight?

GH: And then Grandpa used to hang his scythe in the orchard up in a plum tree, and they used that for cutting hay and cutting wheat and everything, you know. And of course, the thing when hanging up there in the weather, why, it got a little rusty. So in the spring, I went up the plum--up in the tree to pick some plums, and unfortunately I--the back of my right hand hit the scythe and cut it wide open, and I got blood poison in it. So then, Grandma and Grandpa Neigardt had to hustle me to the train station in Calumet, put me on a train, and sent me to Detroit.

I: Because of the…?

GH: Blood-poison. So then my mother and sister met me in Detroit at the railroad station and put me in the Ford Hospital, so I was there for several days until the infection cleared up.

I: What age was this at?

GH: This was--I was about…probably about eight, …

I: Okay.

GH: …eight-and-a-half, nine, somewhere around there.

I: Were you sad to leave the farm up in Calumet? Were you?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I liked it up there.

I: You liked it up there?

GH: Yeah. Yeah.

I: You missed that a little bit?

GH: Yeah.

Transcript at 10 minutes and 44 seconds: (10:44)

I: So, once you got back to Detroit after the blood poisoning cleared up, did you stay there then?

GH: No, then we stayed in Detroit and then… [pause] Then… Let’s see. Yeah, we moved out to Seven Mile Road and Woodward, and then I went to school there.

I: This was in Detroit?

GH: Yeah, in Detroit.

I: Uh-huh.

GH: Then I did spend time out in Armada with the Darga [phonetic spelling] family.

I: The Darga family? Who? I don’t know who…

GH: Well, they were… They were some people that had applied to the courts for children to help on the farms.

I: Oh, I see.

GH: And through the court, I managed to live with them for two or three years.

I: Oh, and you worked on the farm for them…

GH: Yeah, that’s right.

I: …as a hand and they paid you back?

GH: I worked for my room and board, and then the state paid them like eighteen dollars a month for my support or my care.

I: Oh, I see. So you were doing something like that.

GH: Yeah.

Transcript at 11 minutes and 52 seconds: (11:52)

I: And now… okay. And then, did you like on weekends go to see your mother? [inaudible crosstalk]

GH: Oh, no. She used to come out and see me once in a while, and then…then Dorothy’d come out, my sister, and she spent a year, about a year, just about a year out there.

I: Oh, on the same farm?

GH: Yeah.

I: She worked too? And same farm?

GH: Yeah, yeah. And we went to school out there.

I: Okay, so this was…

GH: And after we moved back to Detroit again, and then to school, public schools in Detroit, and then we moved out to I think near Livernois and had an opportunity to get in the Henry Ford Trade School through a friend of my sister’s. His name was Harold Erickson [phonetic spelling]. And instead of going to high school, I went to the Henry Ford Trade School.

I: So this was about fourteen, fifteen years old?

GH: Yeah, when I was fifteen when I started there.

Transcript at 12 minutes and 55 seconds: (12:55)

I: So between getting back from Calumet with the blood poisoning and the trade school, you were living on the farms in the Detroit area?

GH: Yeah, in around Detroit and Armada, and then, you know.

I: Uh-huh.

GH: Not too interesting, Jack (??). Just kind of a boring life.

I: [laughs] So, the trade school, that was… How long was that for? Was that…?

GH: Well, that was for four years.

I: For four years.

GH: Yeah.

I: And that was instead of going to high school?

GH: Yeah. See, and then when we graduated from there, well, we had credits through eleven- eighth (??) because we didn’t have history and English.

I: Uh-huh.

GH: That’s what we were short of.

I: Sure.

GH: So if we wanted to get something equivalent to a high school education, why, we got to take those courses on our own.

I: Oh, I see.

GH: And I graduated from there in 1936.

Transcript at 13 minutes and 49 seconds: (13:49)

I: So at the trade school then, they just taught you a trade towards the auto industry or…?

GH: No. No. No, they taught us to be machinists.

I: Machinists.

GH: ‘Cause we’d go to school one week, and we’d work in the shop for two.

I: Oh, I see. Did a lot of young men at that time do this?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mostly the sons of widowed ladies either from--that had lost their husbands while they were working at Ford’s or other people that were fatherless.

I: I see. So, as you say…

GH: I guess Henry Ford was quite a…quite a humanitarian. He used to take an interest in the youth and try to get us out on the right track.

I: Yeah. Do you think it helped out or (??)… ‘Cause (??) you… (??)

GH: Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. ‘Cause they were very strict and they paid us wages, and we had to take and show our savings account, our bankbook. We had to take it to the school once a month…

I: Sure.

GH: …and show them that we were saving money.

I: Uh-huh.

GH: So they were doing everything that would help to build character into a person.

I: I see. But this was for--mainly for young men that didn’t have…who were fatherless then?

GH: Yeah, right.

I: Yeah.

GH: And then there are some exceptions to the rules. There were some kids that--whose dads were working there and they were an influencing factor in them getting in.

I: Getting in, okay. So at this time, you were living in like a dormitory setting, or were you…?

GH: Oh, no. No, no. I lived at home, yeah.

I: At home.

GH: I used to ride the jitney and the busses on Livernois to the Rouge Plant like all the Ford workers.

I: Oh, yeah?

GH: Yeah.

I: You were with everybody then?

GH: Yeah. We were just one of the crowd. [interviewer laughs] Had to be there at seven in the morning, you know, till three-thirty in the afternoon.

I: Yeah? So what was… Were you… Was this… This had to be in almost downtown Detroit?

GH: No, no. Out in [River] Rouge.

I: Rouge, okay.

GH: Yeah.

I: I’m sorry.

GH: Yeah. Out where the big Ford plant was in River Rouge.

Transcript at 16 minutes and 15 seconds: (16:15)

I: What was…what was--pretty prosperous at that time in that area? Was--were things going pretty well for the family?

GH: Oh yeah, things were going pretty good.

I: Pretty comfortable?

GH: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hm.

I: Okay.

GH: And then, my mother started the--went to school for the course to become a beauty operator.

I: Mm-hm.

GH: And of course, when she got her own--got started and got in her own business, why, things were a little more plentiful then because there was a little more money coming in.

I: Yeah. So most--a lot of what you made from working for the farm or anything…

GH: That was…

I: …and then working at the Ford plant.

GH: That was my own support, you know, buy my own clothes and things that I needed and things that I wanted.

I: Okay. So your mother went to a beauty school?

GH: Yeah. Mm-hm.

I: Did she have her own shop after a while, or did she work for…? Did she…?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah, she, you know, she started out worked for different people and decided to open her own shop by--she was on the corner of Franklin-Livernois for forty years.

I: Oh, was she?

GH: Yeah, in that beauty shop there. Yep.

I: Uh-huh. And you were about--you were just going to Ford Trade School at that time?

GH: Yeah. Yep. Mm-hm.

I: Well, what kind of… What… Did you live in a little apartment with your mother and your sister, or was it just a little…?

GH: Yeah. Yeah, we had a one-bedroom apartment.

I: One bedroom?

GH: Mm-hm.

I: Did you sleep on the couch or something or on a fold-out?

GH: Oh, we had a murphy bed in the living room.

Transcript at 17 minutes and 56 seconds: (17:56)

I: Did ya? Uh-huh. Okay. I don’t know if you’d mind if I ask you some questions about your father. There was nothing? He just… Was… From Detroit, he just left?

GH: That’s right. As far as I know, he--we never did hear from him or never could find him or never even get any of the--anybody to tell us anything about him.

I: Hm. Mm. Okay. So, graduation from Ford Trade School. What was the next step for you?

GH: Well, then I went to work in the different factories around Detroit, like L.A. Spring and Wire Company and Flow (??) Spring and Wire, and then I finally ended up at Ex-Cell-O.

I: Ex-Cell-O. Okay. Those early days in Detroit, was it was it rough for a young man? Was it rough?

GH: Oh, it was fun.

I: Was it fun?

GH: Oh, yeah. It was a fun time.

I: Fun as in getting in trouble sometimes or…?

GH: No, it was… We… I was always too busy…

I: Oh.

GH: …to get in trouble. But we--both Dorothy and I grew up in nice neighborhoods so there was not too much chance to get into too serious problems.

Transcript at 19 minutes and 19 seconds: (19:19)

I: Mm-hm. So during the Ford Trade School and after, your connection with Calumet, were they…?

GH: Just visits.

I: Just visits?

GH: Yeah, periodic visits.

I: And the only ones left up there were the Neigardt family?

GH: Right, that was Aunt Julie and Uncle Art.

I: And they were the sons--son and daughter of your grandparents?

GH: Yeah, uh-huh, the Neigardts.

I: Okay. How long was Aunt Julie and Uncle Art up there?

GH: Well, Aunt Julie, she was down in Detroit for a good many years, and then she lived in Toronto, Canada. She married a Canadian. Then he finally died, and then she lived alone in Detroit, worked at Ford’s. And then when she retired, Uncle Art had the house up there in Calumet, so she went up to live with him…

I: Oh.

GH: …because his wife had died, so it was just the two of them.

Transcript at 20 minutes and 15 seconds: (20:15)

I: When--I remember visiting that house you’re talking about.

GH: Yeah.

I: Now, was that a--at that time, was that a house for miners to live in?

GH: Yeah, it was originally built for--it was built by the mining companies and then later on my Uncle Art bought it, …

I: Mm-hm.

GH: …and he did a lot of work on it and remodeled it, one thing or another, because he was a cabinet maker. He was a carpenter.

I: Hm.

GH: But when Grandpa Neigardt died, why, all the girls got together, and they decided Uncle Art should have that farm that my grandpa had.

I: Mm-hm.

GH: And Uncle Art had spent so much time there as a young man and got so sick of it that he didn’t want any part of the farm, so the farm was sold.

I: Oh, was it?

GH: Yeah.

I: So it was sold after… Now, Grandma Neigardt, did she die after?

GH: She died first.

I: Oh, she died first?

GH: Yeah, yeah.

I: And all the sisters? I know you won’t be able to tell me where they all went, but did most of them go down to Detroit too to start working, or did they stay up in Calumet, or…?

GH: Oh, they spread all over after. Sigrid [phonetic spelling]—no. Let’s see, that’s on Grandpa’s side. Oh. Let’s see. Aunt Julie, she wound up in Canada. Diana, she wound up in…back in Detroit. Most of them wound up in Detroit.

I: In Detroit?

GH: Yeah. Jenny, yeah.

I: It’s like… It’s like at the time that was the place to go if you…

GH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Them and their husbands.

Transcript at 22 minutes and 3 seconds: (22:03)

I: Yeah. I’m sorry. I forgot to ask earlier. Your Hervela side, how many children were on that side? On your grandparents’, on the Hervela side, how many children did they have?

GH: They had thirteen.

I: Thirteen.

GH: Yeah.

I: Okay. Did they all go with the Hervelas from Calumet down to Detroit and end up in Detroit? Were there any Hervelas end up in Detroit?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was two girls left up there.

I: Oh, were they? Because of marriage or..

GH: Yeah, they married. Yeah. Sigrid and Elgie. (??)

I: Yeah.

GH: Yeah, their homes were up there in Calumet.

Transcript at 22 minutes and 37 seconds: (22:37)

I: Okay, alright. When you made your visits to Calumet at that time, it was all by train?

GH: No, it was mostly by car, and then there’d be a ferry to take you across the Straits [of Mackinac].

I: How long was that ferry? That must not have taken very long.

GH: Oh, I would say probably forty-five minutes to an hour…

I: Yeah.

GH: …to get across there.

I: So, you drove a car through the most of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan, and did you drive the Upper Peninsula, too?

GH: Yeah, uh-huh.

I: That must have been a long…

GH: Yeah, that was a long, drawn-out affair.

I: [both laugh] I imagine. So you probably didn’t make the trips very often?

GH: No.

I: No? They were just things.

GH: No. And then of course when I had the blood poisoning, my aunt, when I come back on the train, they put the train on the ferry…

I: Mm-hm.

GH: …and that’s how they got that across.

I: Got it across. So, it had to have been dirt and gravel roads all the way?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I: Your average speed must have been, what, 20 miles an hour?

GH: They used to get about 40, 45 miles an hour.

I: 40?

GH: Yeah.

I: Yeah. But hard rain or something, you must have just been in trouble. [laughs] Yeah. What about the winter times? I know…

GH: We never went up there much in the winter.

Transcript at 24 minutes and 0 seconds: (24:00)

I: How about when you were a kid going back to Calumet in the winter times, getting around?

GH: Well, that was horse-drawn sleighs.

I: Uh-huh.

GH: Yeah.

I: Or with skis, like you said before.

GH: Yeah, or skis, but most of the time when Grandpa and I went to town, why, it was always hook the team up to a cutter, took the sled into town.

I: Most of the houses at that time--I’ve been up there visiting and Aunt Julie’s old house, I’ve noticed they’re built up pretty high. Was that the thing to..?

GH: Well, yeah. That was to get them up off the--out of the snow.

I: [both laugh] Oh, okay.

GH: Yeah, because like Uncle Art and Aunt Julie, why, from the front porch out to the road they had a ramp built, …

I: Mm-hm.

GH: …and that was four feet high, so the first three or four feet of snow, Uncle Art or Aunt Julie didn’t have to shovel it, but after that…

I: They had to start digging!

GH: Yeah. [both laugh]

Transcript at 25 minutes and 1 second: (25:01)

I: Back to Detroit, you… So, you… You worked through the auto plants. You had to have been about 20 years old when you started your first few jobs and…?

GH: Well, I was like nineteen when I got my first job away from Ford, you know.

I: That was doing…?

GH: That was with L. A. Young Spring and Wire.

I: What were you doing there?

GH: I was running a circuit grinder and taking care of a tool crib.

I: I see. Now your wife, Anne, when did you meet her?

GH: Well, let’s see. I think that was [19]37, [19]38, around in there.

I: Uh-huh. You had to have been about mid-twenties?

GH: Yeah, not quite twenty yet.

I: Not quite twenty?

GH: No, because when I told my mother we was getting married I was only nineteen, and she had a fit!

I: Did she? [both laugh] She didn’t like the idea of her son getting married? What, did she tell you you were too young?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I: You get a good job or whatever.

GH: Yeah, you’re not dry behind the ears yet, you know?

I: [laughs] Where did you meet her? Was it a thing in…?

GH: We went to a dance one night out on Fourteen Mile Road and the Northwestern Highway. There was a Veteran of Foreign War had a club out there, and they had a dance floor built. So we went out there, and that’s where I met Annie.

Transcript at 26 minutes and 31 seconds: (26:31)

I: Uh-huh. So, you… Okay, you met her in--around nineteen. You were married?

GH: Yeah.

I: Were you still with the same company?

GH: Yeah, I was working with Ex-Cell-O when we got married.

I: And what were you doing for Ex-Cell-O?

GH: Well, I was in the inspection department then.

I: Inspecting parts, or…?

GH: Yeah. Yeah, and then up over the years, why, you know, after 45 years I wound up working through production and inspection and estimating, did some traveling for the company and…

I: Did ya?

GH: Yeah.

I: And this is all still in the Detroit area?

GH: Yeah. And then when we moved the plant here to Holland way, then I retired out of this activity here.

I: At the early stages of being married, was Annie…did she have a job too, or was she…?

GH: Well, she had worked at the Sarah Fisher Home in an orphanage. And then--of course, being that she was born and raised around Farmington area--and then we found a lot on the Nine Mile Road. Uncle Wally and Aunt Mary, they got the lot next door to us, so that’s when we started to build our houses.

Transcript at 28 minutes and 1 second: (28:01)

I: Uh-huh. So, you started building houses. Now, Aunt Mary is your wife’s sister?

GH: Yeah, right.

I: And you… So you started building the houses together, at the same time?

GH: Yeah. Well, no. We built my house first, and then after that one then we started on Uncle Wally’s.

I: So at that time, I imagine that area--I know I go back down and drive around there…

GH: Yeah.

I: …and there’s everything everywhere, you know, concrete.

GH: Yeah.

I: At that time, was it pretty well undeveloped?

GH: Oh, it was just farm country.

I: Farm country.

GH: It was all farm country.

I: And maybe you were thinking that, “Hey, this is going to be a great spot to be nice out in the country!” [laughs]

GH: Yeah, yeah.

I: Then, now it’s booming.

GH: Yeah, it’s grown up around there, so. And then when we decided to come to Holland, why, then we sold the house down there and then we bought up here where we’re at now.

Transcript at 28 minutes and 54 seconds: (28:54)

I: Going back to a few--just kind of skipping around now. You said you were born in 1917, so when you were young up in Calumet or even in Detroit, you were you were in that period of the Great Depression, and everyone always wonders: what was it like? But for you, was there an effect on your life?

GH: No, not really. Nothing noticeable because we managed to…to live, you know.

I: Yeah.

GH: And to eat one thing or another. But as far as having any kind of luxuries, why, that was out of the picture, you know.

I: Uh-huh. But you didn’t have the devastation of some of the families where, you know, out of the home, out of the jobs, nothing like that?

GH: No, no. Nothing like that.

I: Because being on the farm you had a chance to eat.

GH: Yeah, yeah.

I: Even the Hervelas when they were down in Detroit?

GH: Well, Grandpa had a rough time there during the Depression.

I: His employment was down in Detroit?

GH: Yeah, he worked at Ford’s.

I: Okay, Ford’s. I’m sorry.

GH: Yeah. And I know he had a real rough go there, and he had to take any kind of work he could find, which wasn’t much in those days, you know.

I: Uh-huh. So, he was--

GH: And then of course, as the--as their children graduated from high school and they all got jobs, why, then they all would kick in so much on every payday and help to support the family to keep the house going. That’s the only way they could make it, you know, …

I: Yeah.

GH: …with that many children. And then of course for a couple of years there, why, Dorothy and I lived with them too, you know, along with the rest of their own kids.

I: Lived with the Hervelas?

GH: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Transcript at 30 minutes and 38 seconds: (30:38)

I: Yeah. That was a big family. What was it like being in--I know both were big families. What was it like being a kid, being a grand—like, grandchild in those big houses at that time?

GH: Yeah, it was. There was a lot of activity and a lot of things going on, [interviewer laughs] I’ll tell you. And the--you know, I do remember when Grandma used to put Lakie (??) and I up with undershirts at night, and they were my Grandpa’s old shirts. [both laugh] They were our nightgowns.

I: Yeah? I know even now, with one or two children, to get them—well, let’s say to go to church is just crazy. Did they try to get you to go… [tape cuts out at end of side]

Transcript at 31 minutes and 49 seconds: (31:49)

I: I know nowadays, even having two kids, trying to get ready to get them ready to go to church would just be hectic. Did they get you ready and take you to church?

GH: Oh, no. We had to get ourselves ready. Everybody had to ship for themselves. There was no lollygagging or putzing around. [both laugh] When they said it was time to go, we had to get dressed and go.

I: Yeah.

GH: And Grandpa Hervela, why, he was quite the stickler for making sure that we went to Sunday school, went to Confirmation school and--because he had been president of the church several years, so he was really active in it. He wanted the kids to do right.

I: Well, were both the Neigardt family and the Hervela family, were they religious in that sense?

GH: Well, Grandma Neigardt and Grandpa Neigardt were not too religious, but Grandma Hervela and Grandpa Hervela were very, very religious.

I: Were they?

GH: Very close to the church all the time.

I: Were they? Okay.

GH: Finnish Lutheran.

Transcript at 32 minutes and 56 seconds: (32:56)

I: Being in those big families, trying to just run them would just be crazy. What about, you know, discipline. If you got caught doing something mischievous, what were…?

GH: You paid the penalty.

I: And what?

GH: You were told once [smacks table with hand], and that’s the only time you was told. This is the way it is, and this is the way it’s going to be, and if you want--if don’t want to stay within that boundary, why, you suffer the consequences. And I’m telling you, you did suffer. [both laugh]

I: What were the consequences at times?

GH: Well, like one time my Aunt Irene, why, she had a brand new pair of tennis shoes. So I helped myself to the tennis shoes, and me and my buddies had built what we called a bunk out in the back. And that was a hole in the ground with a roof on it, …

I: Uh-huh.

GH: …and unfortunately, we had to have rain and it filled up with water. So, we found a little gas tank from a Ford, so I decided to go floating on that gas tank. And I fell off it, and Irene’s brand-new tennis shoes become a whole ball full of clay and mud. So, Grandpa took me in the basement and really tanned my hide. [interviewer laughs] I never touched anybody else’s stuff after that, believe me.

Transcript at 34 minutes and 13 seconds: (34:13)

I: Yeah. I imagine. [laughs] So, there’s some other things in history that have happened and you were involved in. I know being--working in a trade area, and I know when World War II started was a big time for many people to stay in America and in…

GH: In industry.

I: In industry.

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I: What was your part in World War II?

GH: Well, I was always--the job that I had, it got me deferments…

I: Mm-hm.

GH: …from the service. So every time my draft notice would come up, why, the company would cover me with a deferment that I was needed, I was necessary. And then when of course the World War ended and they had that occ--Army of Occupation, why, then I was drafted and went down to the draft board. And as luck would have it, at that time they passed a law or they passed a bill in Washington that if you were twenty-six and you had dependents--which I had your dad--

I: Mm-hm.

GH: …I’d be excluded from that, that military service of, you know, Army of Occupation.

I: Yeah.

GH: So, that’s the way it was.

I: So you just missed ’er?

GH: Yeah, I just missed it.

I: Did--I know some companies and some manufacturing outfits changed what they were producing to help produce war weapons.

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I: Did your company do the same?

GH: Yeah, everything we did was from (??) on the aircraft.

I: Was it?

GH: Yeah, it was all aircraft. See, before that we used to build pure-pack (??) machines and diamond bore machines and different type of machinery, but it was required that we got into the aircraft business.

I: Mm-hm.

GH: And we had a lot of jobs with a lot of the companies, Pratt and Whitney, Wright Aircraft, Grumman. We did work for all of them, …

I: Yeah.

GH: …made parts for all of them. Westinghouse. General Electric.

I: Mm.

GH: Yeah, and another company was Allison. They were owned by General Motors. We made a lot of parts for them.

I: Did you?

GH: And then we made parts for the--towards the end of the war, why, we made parts for the Packard Rolls-Royce engine, and that was the engine that was developed in England, Rolls-Royce.

Transcript at 36 minutes and 59 seconds: (36:59)

I: During the war, you know, were you always--I mean, not always, but I’m saying, you know--would you watch your paper hoping to see that war was over and…?

GH: Oh, yes. Yeah. We--that was really horrible when they, you know, when they bombed Pearl Harbor, and then to see the things that was going on over in Europe that Hitler was doing. Yeah, we were sure glad when it was over with.

I: So, sometimes--some people have been saying that at that time they were covering up in America, not letting the American public know what Hitler was doing in the concentration camps and those such things. Did you…

GH: I don’t see that there was any cover-up. It’s just that the information coming out of Germany and out of these foreign countries, it was limited, and the only ones that brought back anything at all was any of the servicemen that might…might have come home on furloughs and stuff like that. Or, you know, some reason that the military wanted to bring them back, but they were very closed-mouth about what was going on over there.

I: Yeah. So you probably didn't have very much information about those types of things.

GH: No, no.

I: And quite the surprise when the war was over to see that?

GH: Yep, yep, yep.

I: What about the day that--the first time you heard that they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, what was that? Because that had to have been…

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I: Something of that destruction in your lifetime.

GH: It was unbelievable. You know, when we read about it, seen it on the newsreels, you know, just what had happened, …

I: Uh-huh.

GH: …how much damage it did. It really did do… It was just… [pause] Never imagined anything could be that destructive.

I: Sure.