Isaac Palomaki Interview Side 1

Isaac Palomaki Interview, Side 1

Transcript at 1 second: (00:01)

MEREDITH LAMB (ML): My name is Meredith Lamb. I am interviewing Isaac Palomaki at his home. Today's date is November 8, 1996. Today, Mr. Palomaki and I will discuss his year teaching at the Fire Center School, as well as his childhood memories of West Ishpeming School. What is your full name and when were you born?

ISAAC PALOMAKI (IP): Isaac Palomaki [pause] born on May 5, 1911.

ML: What…what year did you start school?

IP: Let's see, I must have started in 1916.

ML: 1916? Describe a typical day at elementary school.

IP: Pardon?

ML: Describe a typical day at elementary school.

Transcript at 1 minute and 1 second: (01:01)

IP: Oh, that is hard to remember. Way back there, 85--no, 80 years ago. [laughs] I…I can't remember too much of the early--because I…I started school at North Lake and then we moved from there to…

ML: Oh!

IP: …West Ishpeming. We moved in the middle of the year, yeah. I think it was month of February. So…

ML: Okay.

IP: That’s… I…I can't remember too much about that. I remember the whole (??) school and that's all. [both laugh]

ML: Did you have any homework?

IP: No, not any at that time anyway. But during…during the elementary school. Then we got to the higher grades. There was homework then. We used to have a lot, especially mostly arithmetic, so.

ML: Oh.

IP: You had to work the problems out at home, so.

ML: What did you write with?

IP: Write? With pencils, yeah. No, there were no pens, ballpoint pens in those days. [both laugh]

ML: What did you write on?

IP: We had paper. Paper--that was all furnished by the school district, so. And so as long… (??) The same thing with the pencils. We never had to buy any stuff like that until--I can't remember--until I got into high school. Then you had to provide your own, so.

ML: Oh. What was lunch like?

IP: Lunch was--we always went home for lunch because the school was only a couple blocks away from home, so.

ML: Oh.

IP: We had that one hour for lunch from twelve to one o'clock, so.

ML: Wow.

IP: It was nice to go home every day.

Transcript at 3 minutes and 2 seconds: (03:02)

ML: Yeah. There’s some questions about lunch at school, but it wasn't. Where were your jackets kept?

IP: In wardrobes. We had--I think there was one wall. I think there were three or four--I think just three wardrobes. One was for the boys and one was for the girls, and they had a door that slid open. It rolled up, you know, and…and you had your clothes in there. You pulled them down, so. And then the third one was used for supplies all the time.

ML: Oh.

IP: School supplies. Because there wasn't too much space. There was a little bit of a closet in the classroom, so.

Transcript at 3 minutes and 53 seconds: (03:53)

ML: Oh.

IP: Yeah.

ML: That's neat. Describe recess. How long was it?

IP: We had a 15-minute recess in the morning and afternoon.

ML: Oh.

IP: And at those recess times, I used to sneak home with a couple of friends, and we'd go home and get some apricots and that [ML laughs] to snack on, you know. We had time to do that. Then, of course, we played at recess time. Always we had baseball or something. In the wintertime, it was--there was a little bit of a hill. We made a bump, and we used to ski ride at recess time also.

ML: [laughs] What other games did you play?

IP: That's…that’s about the only…only games that we played, so. Other than little snow battles in the wintertime.

Transcript at 4 minutes and 53 seconds: (4:53)

ML: [laughs] What were your desks like?

IP: Well, the…the desk part was…and the…and the seat, they were screwed to the floor, so they weren't movable.

ML: Oh.

IP: And then the desk had a place…place to hold your books in there so they weren't hanging around. And the desk and the seat was adjustable to whether you were small or large. You could raise them or lower them to your liking.

Transcript at 5 minutes and 29 seconds: (05:29)

ML: [laughs] How were unruly children handled?

IP: I don't remember too much about that, but I know that when we were up in the upper grades already, we had a principal that one of the students even had to--he made a paddle out of a whole lumber, and he had that. And then if you didn't behave in class, you had to go up to the class and put out your hand, and he'd hit it. And that was a good swat, too. [both laugh] And so a lot of them pulled their hand out, and that made them all the more… [both laugh]

Transcript at 6 minutes and 14 seconds: (6:14)

ML: Describe your clothing. Did you--like in the winter, did you wear many layers?

IP: Well, we tried to do so. We had so much clothing so we wouldn't be cold outdoors, and we didn't want to peel off everything when we got in our room. We wanted to get out. At recess time and at back home time, you just have a little jacket that you put on and a wardrobe. So, yeah.

ML: So, you had…

IP: And we had our… We used to put our mittens and things--after they were all wet, we put them on a radiator so they dried up.

ML: So, did… So, did you have lots of layers other than that? You know, just regular clothing?

IP: No, nothing. There was your underclothing. And then you used to have a woman's shirt, and then we used to have a sweater on top of that, and then a jacket on top of that, so. And that's the thing…the only thing we put in a wardrobe then, so.

ML: Oh.

IP: We only had to throw that jacket on to get out. [both laugh]

Transcript at 7 minutes and 22 seconds: (07:22)

ML: How did you get to school?

IP: Walked.

ML: Walked.

IP: I lived right down the bottom of the hill here, on the other side of this hill…

ML: Oh.

IP: …in the corner. And we used to cut across. There were no homes here. It was all pine woods, and we had a path from there right to the school, so. You know, it was no transportation of any kind necessary.

ML: [laughs] How long did it take? Not very long, I guess.

IP: Oh, maybe about five minutes. That’s about it.

Transcript at 7 minutes and 55 seconds: (07:55)

ML: Describe any special programs that the school offered.

IP: I don't know if we had any special programs that I can recall other than what we did at Christmas time and at the spring of the year. Christmas time, we always put on a big Christmas play program. That--it took care of the whole school. That was from kindergarten through eighth grade, so, and that was quite a thing. We started practicing that play always, and that was right after Thanksgiving, and that was a good time of the year, because we lost a lot of hours practicing. We didn't have to do any schoolwork. [laughs] And then we had another program in the spring of the year. That was for--that was mostly 4-H club work, because we put on a play then, and we used to fill the auditorium with the parents to come and see the program. And then we looked forward to the trip. They had a 4-H roundup at--in Marquette at the--well, then it was a normal school or something. It's now NMU [Northern Michigan University], so.

ML: Oh, yeah.

IP: And prior to that, we got a free treat (??) into the Delft Theater for a free movie, and then from there we moved to the college, and we brought our own lunch along, you know, when I went there. The whole day spent over there.

ML: Wow.

IP: We looked forward to that.

ML: Yeah, that was fun.

IP: Yeah, it was. And then, you know, we had the two schools, the North Lake school and the West Ishpeming school. And the boys--North Lake had their own baseball team, and we had our team, and we'd see which one was the winner at the end of the year, then. And we played it at the college.

ML: Wow. Was there kindergarten at your school?

IP: Yes, there was. Yeah.

Transcript at 10 minutes and 23 seconds: (10:23)

MP: How big was the school? How many kids?

IP: We had… We had… We had four classrooms, and we had a library, and then in the basement we had our workshop, and then on the other side of the basement we had the--what do you call--the sewing machines and stuff, because the girls did 4-H work there, sewing garments and things. And then the winners of those, if you won prizes at the school, they were sent to Marquette, to the Marquette County Fair, and they were judged there. We used to get prizes up to--first, second, and third prize. I think one was 25 cents, one was 50 cents, the other was 75 cents. [ML laughs] But that was big money in those days if you won. [IP laughs]

ML: That's neat.

IP: Yeah.

ML: How many kids do you think went to the school?

IP: Oh I… I think most of the time they were--all the classrooms were filled. I would... I would say they…there must have been pretty close to 25, at least between 25 and 30 in each classroom. We had the kindergarten and the first grade were on the first floor. Then they went up on the second floor, and we had the second and third grade on one side, and then on the opposite side on the second floor was the fourth and fifth grade, and then downstairs for the sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, so. One teacher. The principal had three grades.

ML: Oh.

IP: Yeah, so we had four teachers all the time.

Transcript at 12 minutes and 27 seconds: (12:27)

ML: Oh, wow.

IP: Yeah.

ML: Can you remember the name of your first teacher?

IP: I have been trying to think about that, and I think it must have been Miss Wallin.

ML: And how do you spell that?

IP: [laughs] I would imagine. I think it's W-A-L-L-I-N.

ML: Okay. Miss Wallin?

IP: Yeah.

ML: Do you remember any of your other teachers' names?

IP: Oh, yes. Then we had… I think the second and third grade was taught by Miss Parson, and the fif--fourth and fifth grade was taught by Miss Steinbecker.

ML: And do you know how to spell that? [laughs]

IP: I know it. S-T-E-I-N-B-E-C-K-E-R. Steinbecker.

ML: Okay.

IP: And then the principal when I was there was--well, I had…I had two principals. When we…we had Mr. Larson was the third--when I was in sixth grade, and then we had Mr. McNeil in my seventh and eighth grade.

ML: Okay. Miss Parson, is it Parsons or Parson?

IP: Yeah, Miss Parson.

ML: With an S at the end or not?

IP: Pardon?

ML: Does it have an S on the end or no S?

IP: No.

ML: Okay.

IP: Miss Parson.

ML: Parson.

Transcript at 14 minutes and 14 seconds: (14:14)

ML: Okay. How long was a school day?

IP: From nine till twelve and from one till four.

ML: Did you ever go on any field trips?

IP: Oh, we used to go in the spring of the year and then maybe sometime early fall, you know. It was a beautiful day. We'd cut across the Carp River over here, and we went in the woods. In there, there were a lot of open spaces. We used to have a lot of…play a lot of games over there. I don't think we did very much other than just games over there. We didn't have field trips as far as classwork is concerned. The only field trips we took for that was in the spring of the year when we were preparing for the 4-H thing in Marquette, and I think we made charts of… We got some…took… We made charts on flowers, all the different wildflowers, and then fellows usually took and made--took all the trees that are around--a little bit of a piece, maybe three, four inches long, and we cut into the…up to the center or the heart of the tree, and we named them. We had… We glued them on. We sawed a piece off on the end, and we glued that piece there so they could see the rings. So yeah, we used to get a lot of prizes on that stuff.

Transcript at 15 minutes and 53 seconds: (15:53)

ML: Wow, sounds like a lot of fun. How were holidays celebrated at school? I remember you mentioned a program.

IP: Yeah, we had the Christmas program and then the program in the spring of the year. They're the only two activities, you know, that the whole school took part in that, so.

ML: Do you remember anything else that you did on Christmas in school?

IP: Oh. I don't know what you mean.

ML: Like, did…did you do any other Christmas activities, or did the school give the kids anything, or…?

IP: Oh, yeah, the schools always… We got a box of--you know, like they used to pack ice cream in those kind of little cartons. We got that thing out full of candy, and then we got an apple and an orange, and that was…that was a big thing. And then at the closing of the school in the spring, we used to have an outdoor picnic, and we had ice cream. We had bananas and--but otherwise, we bought our own lunch, but the treats were on the school always, so. [ML laughs] Yeah, we used to go to the--oh, what is it called. It's up on… It's on the west end. It used to be called the Ishpeming City Tourist Park. There's a home there now on that hillside, and that's where we had our picnics, so.

Transcript at 17 minutes and 52 seconds: (17:52)

ML: What was your… What were your teachers like?

IP: Well, most of the… We had three women teachers and then one man teacher, and he was the principal, so. And they were all good. I never found any fault with any of them. [both laugh] I think I was a little bit timid. I wasn't one of those that would cause much trouble, so. So, I got along okay.

ML: But were they very--quite strict?

IP: Oh, yes, they were. Yeah. You had to toe the mark, you know. You didn't get away with anything. [both laugh]

Transcript at 18 minutes and 47 seconds: (18:47)

ML: So then, there were always three women teachers, and then…

IP: Yeah, that’s right.

ML: …the male principal? What do you remember about diseases in school?

IP: Pardon?

ML: What do you remember about diseases in school?

IP: Well, I suppose the run of the regular common cold all the time. I can't remember of any really contagious, like small--chicken pox, and there must have been some other… But I can't recall anything. I know I had chicken pox one time, so. And then, of course, measles. Those are about the only ones that… But I don't think… I can't ever recall of having to close the school on account of an epidemic. I suppose there were individuals, and they stayed home. Of course, in those days, if you got any of those diseases, like measles or chicken pox, scarlet fever, the health department would come and put a sign on the wall at home, and you weren't supposed to go and mix with anybody while that sign is on until your doctor gave orders that you're free now.

ML: Wow, I never knew that.

IP: Yeah, that's right. I don't see that being done at all anymore. Nowhere. You'd keep away from a place that had a sign on it that there's diphtheria or something in there, so. [Both laugh]

Transcript at 20 minutes and 26 seconds: (20:26)

ML: Wow. So, do you remember at all the flu epidemic of 1918?

IP: I have a faint memory of it. I had friends that had that. That is, they were family friends, and the two that I can recall, I remember they passed away, you know. That one family that… They came over. They used to live in North Lake, and they walked all the way from North Lake to our place to visit for the day, and I can remember him. He was chilly all that day when he was at home. He was sitting right by the stove on a wood box that was right by because he felt chilly, and then we were supposed to…we were supposed to go to another family later on in the afternoon, and I think they did go, too. He went home and he took sick, and in a couple days he was gone.

ML: Oh, that's sad.

IP: Yeah, it was. There was an awful lot of deaths when we had that epidemic.

ML: Yeah.

Transcript at 21 minutes and 43 seconds: (21:43)

ML: Who were the most memorable teachers at West Ishpeming, do you think?

IP: Well, I know that Mr. Larson was a very good principal and so was Mr. McNeil, and I think all the lady teachers, they were all good teachers. So like I said, I had no complaints, and I guess we learned something over there, so. [both laugh] That was the main thing.

ML: Tell me about community activities in the school. Did you have any of that?

IP: Well, I can't remember of any too much community activity other than the only time is at Christmas and the spring of the year when we had our programs, and I think the school was given—like, our church was permitted to keep Sunday school there. I can't remember how many years, but I know we used to go there for Sunday school, and I think it was used by some other parishes too, different denominations that were... [pause] Is Pastor Lamb your dad?

ML: Yes.

IP: Oh.

ML: Yes.

IP: He’s a very nice fellow.

ML: Do you know him?

IP: Oh, yes. [laughs] Yeah, I know him. I thought you were the daughter.

ML: Oh, yeah. Where do you know him from?

IP: Well, when I met him at the church, and I think the first time I met him--and you were there too. You gave a program at the Emmanuel Lutheran Church on…I think that was a Sunday night.

ML: Yes.

IP: I think you had sang and played piano, and there was something other. Was it violins or…?

ML: Yes. Yes.

IP: And we sat at the same table for lunch, …

ML: Oh.

IP: …and that's… We introduced each other, and that's where I met him, and I've known him since then.

ML: Oh, wow. I didn't realize that.

IP: Yeah. [both laugh]

Transcript at 24 minutes and 11 seconds: (24:11)

ML: How much did a candy bar or pop cost? Do you remember?

IP: A whole nickel. [both laugh] Five cents.

ML: For both of those?

IP: Yeah. That is each was five cents.

ML: Right.

IP: So. And that was the same thing for a cone of ice cream in the summertime, so.

ML: Wow.

IP: It's a far cry from what they charge today.

ML: Yep, that's for sure.

IP: You can't get a candy bar for less than 75 cents, …

ML: Mm-hm.

IP: …and I think your pop is almost up there, too.

ML: Yep.

IP: Some places you may get them for 50 cents, but not very often.

ML: Right.

IP: Yeah.

Transcript at 25 minutes and 0 seconds: (25:00)

ML: What type of hobbies or handicrafts did you do when you were young?

IP: Well, like we had the woodworking shop in school. We made a lot of articles over there that were used at home. Then I have… I think I found one in the basement that I made when I was in--I must have been in sixth grade, I think.

ML: Oh, wow.

IP: So, I don't know. Other hobbies was mostly was playing ball in the summertime, and in the wintertime it was always skiing, so. And skating.

ML: Oh, yeah.

IP: Those are--and I followed those things up until very recently. I just quit skating two years ago, so. I didn't dare go anymore in case I'd fall down, so.

ML: Oh, yeah.

IP: Because I have a new hip.

ML: Oh, really?

IP: I didn't want to fall and break that again, so.

ML: Yeah.

IP: But I still cross-country ski. I don't dare go downhill anymore, [ML laughs] so.

ML: My grandpa has a new hip, too.

IP: Does he?

ML: Yeah, he just got it.

IP: Well, that was quite a thing.

Transcript at 26 minutes and 34 seconds: (26:34)

ML: What was church like?

IP: Church? Well, that’s… We went to church. You know. I go on to Bethel. We used to walk from here to church. And then in the church, the men sat on one side of the church, and the women sat on the other side of the church. We had a big potbelly stove right in the center, and there were all kinds of big smoke pipes running all along the length of the church sanctuary to hit the chimney then. So that was really something.

ML: Yeah.

IP: And then we went to Sunday school. We walked to Sunday school until about the time I was able to take the car by myself, and then I used to take the kids from around here in the car and go to Sunday school.

Transcript at 27 minutes and 39 seconds: (27:39)

ML: How was your family affected by the Depression?

IP: It was rough going. We were a family of six, four boys and Ma and Pop. Dad didn’t--he worked in the mines, and then they closed them, and sometimes I think there for a while they were able to get two days a week. Finally, they closed completely, and then--I don't know, was that the county or was that the WPA [Works Progress Administration] works that--by the federal government? They got two days a week, and you can imagine what you're going to feed on. So, we used to go--there were three brothers. We went… My dad… We'd go for the day out into the woods and cut pulpwood. We were lucky if we made 5 dollars a day with four of us working at that. [both laugh] The big part of that was the lunchtime, you know. Mom used to pack a good lunch always, and Dad would always share. If we didn't have enough, he'd give up his lunch. [both laugh] Well, that was… I got a few days of work once in a while. I worked for the Ishpeming Township on a weekend. So I guess I got 3 dollars a day for that.

ML: What was the cost of eggs and bread during this time?

IP: I know they weren't very much. Were they 15 cents? Or 10 cents a dozen of eggs, 15 cents for a loaf of bread.

Transcript at 29 minutes and 41 seconds: (29:41)

ML: You mentioned your dad worked at the mine until it closed. Then what was his job then after that? Did he not always have a job?

IP: No, until the Depression was over. Then they got back into the mines, and he worked there until he retired, so.

ML: So, did he have off-and-on several jobs during the Depression, or…?

IP: No. The only thing--well, they used to go and pick a lot of berries during the Depression years, blueberries, and we'd sell the blueberries.

ML: Oh.

IP: Cohodas had a warehouse here, and he used to buy the blueberries. We used to pick a bushel, two bushels of berries in a day. And at first, the price of the berries, we were getting 7, 8 dollars a bushel, and it started coming down to 6, 5, and 4. Then when it got down to about 4, it wasn't worth it. Then we went and picked for our own, and then Mother preserved the--we used to put up hundreds of quarts of blueberries and strawberries, and [both laugh] I didn't mind that, but, you know, we used to take off to go berry picking. Dad was then working in the mine, and if he had day shift, he would come and get us. And there was another fellow that had night shift, and we were the two families, and when he come home from work--came home from work from a night shift in the morning, we’d pile in. He took us with his car and brought us out south to the Greenwood, south…south of Ishpeming there, and he’d leave us there. We had our lunch and everything, and we had to stay there until my dad got home from work after day shift, and he'd come and pick us up. So, we had from about 7 in the morning till 5, 6 in the evening before we could get home from there again. [both laugh]

ML: Did any family members drop out of school?

IP: No, nobody dropped out.

ML: Did you lose any money in the bank?

IP: We didn't have any money to put in the bank, so we didn't lose anything in the banks. [both laugh]

Transcript at 32 minutes and 25 seconds: (32:25)

ML: You…you attended a different West Ishpeming School, not the one that is there now, a different site?

IP: That’s right. We had one that was right across--or just north of the one that's there now. Across--I think that's called Center Street, right in that corner, corner of Silver and Center Street. There was an old wooden structure there. That's where I came when I moved from North Lake. I was there maybe a few…few months just, so. And then I can recall when we--the day we moved our stuff from the old school into the new school, so. That was really something. Yeah, I was only in kindergarten when I…I came here. I started in North Lake and then finished over in the West Ishpeming, so.

ML: Was there a fire in that school, or did they just build a new one?

IP: No, there was no fire. They just built a brand-new school, that's all. I can't remember of any…any fire. Of course, there was no fire because we went--we took all our stuff from there when we moved, so.

ML: Oh.

IP: But you probably remember that North Lake school burned down.

ML: Right.

IP: Yeah, that--my wife was teaching there when that went down.

ML: Oh, wow.

IP: Yeah, and she was teaching out there in the Copper Country in Tapiola when that school burned down, so she went through two fires in the school. [both laugh]

Transcript at 34 minutes and 21 seconds: (34: 21)

ML: Wow. Where did your family go shopping for groceries and clothes?

IP: In--right in town, that's the only… So, we had the… We did most of our grocery shopping in Cost [phonetic spelling] Mercantile Company or Rossberg [phonetic spelling] Mercantile Company. And most of our clothing was either from Loffburg's [phonetic spelling] or Penny Store or Lowenstein's [phonetic spelling] or wherever you could get the cheapest. [both laugh]

ML: Did you or other students have any role models?

IP: No, not that I can recall anyway.

Transcript at 35 minutes and 10 seconds: (35:10)

ML: Did you have after-school chores or jobs?

IP: That was the main thing when school was dismissed in the afternoon. We had our chores to do before we could go out. There were four of us, so I had the chore of filling up the coal stove with coal all the time. And another brother had to take--he carried the wood for the range in the kitchen, and the other one had to split and make the kindling so they could start the fire in the morning. [both laugh]

ML: All this time keeping warm.

IP: Yeah, that's right. And then we had a chance to go out for a little while to have some fun, you know, in the wintertime. It was skiing all the time before supper time came. And you had to be home for that, otherwise you were in trouble.

Transcript at 36 minutes and 10 seconds: (36:10)

ML: [laughs] What kind of pranks were pulled on Halloween?

IP: Well, the big one was--in those days there was no sewage or anything, so we had the outhouses, so that was the main target most of the time. [laughs] They were knocked over. [ML laughs] And then of course if you had any wood piled outside, they went and knocked that over. We didn't get very much done at my--our home. One time they took the--knocked the wood pile over. And that was really something because my dad always did the…piled the wood, and he made a perfect pile out of it, and they knocked it over. We never did find out who did it, so. But that's the only time that we had any damage done at the home, and we weren't allowed to go out anywhere to do any damage. [both laugh] They didn't want us to get into any trouble.

ML: That's a good idea.

IP: Yeah, that's right.

Transcript at 37 minutes and 23 seconds: (37:23)

ML: What year did you graduate from high school?

IP: 1929.

ML: That was right when the Depression struck, hey?

IP: Pardon? Yeah, that was just about the time of the Depression. So.

ML: How many students were in your graduating class?

IP: I think there was 135.

ML: In--where did you graduate from?

IP: Ishpeming High School.

ML: Oh, okay.

IP: Yeah. So, if you read the Mining Journal, every once in a while you'll see once a month that the class of 1929 meets for lunch. [laughs] We're still keeping that going.

ML: How often?

IP: Yeah, once a month.

ML: Oh, wow.

IP: Yeah, we only had five the last time, last week when we were there, so. Yeah, it's nice, nice to get together, so. Ishpeming is great for that. You see so much of that, all the different classes that are having breakfasts or luncheons.

ML: Yeah.

IP: So.

ML: So, after eighth grade you went to Ishpeming High School?

IP: That's right. Yeah, we were bussed in there from here. The township or the school hired a bussing outfit, so.

Transcript at 38 minutes and 52 seconds: (38:52)

ML: Let's see, what did you do in your leisure time?

IP: Well, we had a lot of work leisure time at home. We used to have to get the winter supply of wood. We used to get them in the car, and then we had to saw the wood up, and then we had to split them. Then Dad did the piling always. He piled the wood. And then we had to sneak in for a swim always in-between there. We used to swim in the old Carp River here. [laughs] So. And we used to swim in Rock Lake that's on the…off the…behind Snyder's drug store.

ML: Oh, yeah.

IP: You can see it from here, over past that lake there, and that's where we used to do a lot of swimming too.

ML: Wow. [laughs]

IP: And that was something when in the summertime when you had a hot day and the roads had this tar on them, you know, and the tar would melt. And most of the times we were barefooted. Just--we just about burned the bottom of our feet on all that hot pavement and then get our--this tar stuck underneath our feet. [laughs]

Transcript at 40 minutes and 21 seconds: (40:21)

ML: Were there many dropouts in high school?

IP: Well, I… I don't think there were that many. I can't recall that much anyway because, of course, we didn’t we didn't have too much contact with the students from Ishpeming. The only time you might notice something is if you happened to have somebody in class that dropped out, but there weren't that many.

Transcript at 40 minutes and 55 seconds: (40:55)

ML: There's some high school questions here, but I think since you went to Ishpeming, I'm not gonna write about that.

IP: Uh-huh.

ML: So, skip some of that. What kind of grades did you get in school?

IP: Well, I was average. Some subjects you liked you got a little better grade in than some of the others. But I was an average student, so yeah.

ML: How would your parents have reacted if you were unruly in school?

IP: We didn't tell them [both laugh] because we would be in for another one at home.

ML: Did the school contact your parents if you were?

IP: It wouldn't do very much good if they did because my folks never spoke English. They were Finnish.

ML: Oh.

IP: So, there wouldn't have been any... They couldn't communicate very well. [laughs]

ML: So, did you… You spoke Finnish at home and English in school?

IP: That's right. I had the toughest... I was the oldest, and I had nothing but Finnish at home and then we'd go to school and start and learn the English. The others were a little easier after I got started, so yeah.

Transcript at 42 minutes and 28 seconds: (42:28)

ML: Do you remember ever getting in trouble?

IP: No. I was a good boy. [both laugh]

ML: You were a good boy. What are your most vivid memories of school?

IP: Oh… [pause] I’m trying to think. [pause] I think most of what I have to deal with here was like in the grade schools, it was the programs at Christmas and then in the spring of the year and in the field trips that we took. And at Christmas time, we had to go out and the fellas get the Christmas tree for the auditorium, and we always got one so big that--I don't know. We used to haul it, kill ourselves trying to drag that tree in, and then you had to chop half of it off so it would fit into the auditorium. And one time, we got a hold of a horse, and we got him to drag the tree for us, [laughs] so. And of course in high school, we always had--I can remember the senior class plays and then of course the basketball games. I didn't get to too many football games, so. I got to the basketball games, so.

Transcript at 44 minutes and 24 seconds: (44:24)

ML: Did you play in any of those sports, or…?

IP: No, I wasn't--my folks wouldn't allow me to go out for football, so. I did go out for basketball and--but then maybe my parents forced me to quit that because I had to walk from Ishpeming home, and my supper was always late, and they didn't--so I had to drop out of that. I can remember Coach Watson [phonetic spelling], and he…he used to come around and ask me to play football too, and he said, “I'll get you all brand-new equipment, suits and shoes and everything.” I said, “My parents won’t let”--he said, “That's enough. I don't want to hear anymore,” and that was the end of it. [laughs]

ML: Who was your favorite teacher?

IP: It's hard to say. [pause] Well, I know I enjoyed the principal at the West Ishpeming School. Mr. Larson [phonetic spelling], he was good, and MacNeil [phonetic spelling] was good. And in high school, we had good ones. We had Mr. Leclerc [phonetic spelling] and Mr. Siebert [phonetic spelling] and Mr. Flo [phonetic spelling], and there were good biology and science teachers that I enjoyed. I wasn't that fond of chemistry, but… [laughs]

Transcript at 46 minutes and 15 seconds: (46:15)

ML: What did you do on a date?

IP: We didn't have dates very rarely, but we used to go on… We used to have walks. We went out. We'd get together, and we'd go on a wiener roast or a marshmallow roast, go to some camp. We had high old times. We used to go to that park out there, Ishpeming City Tourist Park. They had a big fireplace there. I don't know how many. There must have been at least 10 or 12… [tape cuts out]