Maffeo Bianchi Interview

Maffeo Bianchi Interview

Transcript at 41 seconds: (0:41)

Interviewer (I): Okay. I'm doing an interview with Maffeo Bianchi from Princeton, Michigan, and it's July 16th, 1985.

Maffeo Bianchi (MB): I've got a set right on my stereo there.

I: Oh.

MB: Could use a good headphones.

I: I can get some copies made of this if you want.

MB: You could what?

I: I could get copies made of this if you wanted one.

MB: Yeah.

I: Maffeo--Maffeo [different pronunciation], as it's called--you came from Italy.

MB: Mm-hm.

I: And you your parents came from Italy. Did you know when your parents came from Italy?

MB: My dad come over here in 1907. My mother come over here in 1909.

Transcript at 1 minute and 40 seconds: (1:40)

I: Do you have any idea how they came here and why they came here?

MB: Well, my dad was over here once before with his brother and some people from the same town there, and he came back to Italy. And work was kind of hard to get over there, so he decided to come back here. So, he was here for a while, and he decided to send for my mother. And she came here with my brother Pete, and Pete was just left over there. Then shortly after just before the war broke out, she sent for my sister, my older sister. She could go over there. Then, my brother Chester and I was left over there.

Transcript at 2 minutes and 30 seconds: (2:30)

I: All by yourself.

MB: So then, the war broke out, and we had to stay there. And then probably (??) here (??) in 1918, my dad was killed in the mine. And my mother, she was undecided whether she was gonna stay here or whether to come over there, so I wrote to her and said, “If you know what's good for you, you’re gonna stay where you're at,” or something. And then, she sent for us in 1920. We come over.

Transcript at 2 minutes and 56 seconds: (2:56)

I: I see. Where did your parents come from in Italy?

MB: The town was Breno, the name of the town.

I: Breno?

MB: Yeah.

I: B-E---you know the spelling of that?

MB: B-R-E-N-O.

I: And what city is that near?

MB: Lombardy. It's, oh, about 30 miles from Milan, 35 miles to the east of Milan.

Transcript at 3 minutes and 29 seconds: (3:29)

I: What was your trip like in coming here? You said that you came over in a boat.

MB: It was a night… It was a nightmare.

I: It was a nightmare.

MB: We left—see, we had passage. We had booked a passage in a regular passenger boat. Then about two weeks before we were supposed to leave there, well, they wrote us a letter and said that we overflowed. So then, we didn't have a [inaudible word]. So meantime, we went to the agency, and the agency said they had this one boat come in. It was a merchant boat. It wasn't a passenger boat. So, we—well, I was anxious to get here, so we took that boat. We left Genoa and went to Naples. We stopped two days in Naples, and then we went from there to Palermo, Sicily. We stopped another two days. Then, we went from there to Gibraltar, and we spent a night there. And then, we came across from there, and the whole way it was rough.

I: It was rough?

MB: I was sick all the way over. [laughs]

I: How long did it take you to cross the ocean?

MB: It took about 14 days or 15 days. I guess it was something like that, and then--counting the days we stopped here and there. And then when I left Italy, I borrowed the money for to get the ticket, and I got the ticket for us. I figured if I get to America, well, then I could wire my mother from there. So, we did. We got to Boston. You know, they ask you questions. They were worried. “Do you got enough money to get there?” I said, “No, I haven't got the money.” I said I had to wire my mother. She said okay. She took down the address and [inaudible word]. And I waited one day, two days, three days, four days, five days and never heard any answer. I said, “What's going on here?” So when in the office they asked us if we could hear anything, I checked in and they forgot to send it.

I: Oh, jeez.

MB: [laughs]

I: And that was the immigration people?

MB: Yeah.

Transcript at 5 minutes and 56 seconds: (5:56)

I: And where did you stay when you landed in Boston?

MB: They had a building there. Oh, there were--I don’t know There must have been 200 people, man. There were Japanese and Chinese and all mixed. It was all nationalities, I guess. So, they finally sent it. And oh, I think it was the next day or the day after that. We were sitting down having dinner. They used to come in with a bunch of telegrams. You know, they'd call out names. So, they call my name out. Said, “That's it. [unclear phrase] Let's get out of here.” So, they took us from there. They took us. We went and picked up my trunk there. We had a few rags in there. They took us to the depot there, and they got us a ticket. [inaudible word] to the [inaudible words]. So, we take it. This was--it was early in the afternoon, about 2:30, I guess. So, we sit there. 3:30, 4:30, 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock. I said, “What? They must have forgotten a lot out here.” But they didn't though. You know what? 8:30, they come and come on. They took us and put us in the train.

I: You were with your brother then?

MB: Yeah. So, we traveled all that night and moved to the next day. In the afternoon sometime, we ended up--I found out we were in Montreal, Canada.

Transcript at 7 minutes and 27 seconds: (7:27)

I: You went to Montreal, Canada?

MB: Yeah. So, we get there. Well, it's the end of the line. The train stops and everybody gets off, and we get off too. Nobody tells us where to go, what to do, nothing else. So then, we sit there like two morons (??). [both laugh] The guy there walked by in a uniform--he must have been working in that depot there--and he looked at us every time he’d go by. He looked and he [inaudible word]

I: These two guys don't know where they're going.

MB: So, he could go and talk to us. He's Italian. He could talk Italian.

I: In Montreal?

MB: Yeah.

I: Was he a worker for the train there?

MB: Yeah, he was working in the depot there, and he come over and ask if we were Italian. I said yes. He said, “Where are you going?” So, I showed him a ticket. “Well,” he said, “there'll be a train coming in on track number three there, I guess.” He said, “About eight o'clock. And you get on that train.” So, okay. So, the train came, and we got on there, took off. We traveled all that night. And on the next day, the next day, I met a guy on the train there. He talked to me in Italian. He asked me where I was going, and I told him. He said, “I was there.” He said--

Transcript at 8 minutes and 44 seconds: (8:44)

I: That he had been there?

MB: Yeah. And I said, “Well, when do we get there?” He said, “Oh, you’ll get there tonight.” Boy, I was happy. It was nice to come to some place where [inaudible word]. The Canadian Soo [Sault Sainte Marie, Ontario].

I: You went to the Canadian Soo from Montreal?

MB: Yeah. So, train stopped there, don't go any farther. We got off of the train. We were in the depot there, and they sent for an interpreter there. And they come there, and he asked us if we wanted to sleep in the depot or go to the hotel. I said, “I thought we were supposed to get home tonight.” “Oh,” he said, “you don't get home until tomorrow.”

I: Oh, so it was a rude awakening for you.

MB: [laughs] Yeah. So anyway, I tell you what, we were full of lice and half starving.

I: Lice?

MB: Lice. Oh, Christ. I could go up here and pull off a half a dozen.

I: From the train?

MB: Mm-hm. And the boat coming over.

I: I see.

MB: I found out after. I didn't know how it was at that time. But anyway, we slept in the depot that night. That guy, the interpreter, gave me a handful of kind of [inaudible word]. You know, chewing gum. I never saw chewing gum in my life. And I started chewing it. And I started chewing it. I chewed it. I chewed it. I could never get rid of it. [laughs] I gave up.

I: But it was something to eat, and you ended up chewing it.

MB: I couldn’t figure out what it was. So anyway, the next day, we got on the train and we traveled. We were bound to Lassen [phonetic spelling; can’t find place with this name] down here.

Transcript at 10 minutes and 10 seconds: (10:10)

I: Lassen?

MB: Yeah, that's down here by Dukes [phonetic spelling; can’t find place with this name].

I: By Dukes.

MB: Yeah, there used to be a junction there. You know, one track goes to Marquette, and one comes in to the lake. So then, we had to get out there and wait for the train to come this way. So, we stopped there, and I was dry. And I looked around, and I figured in Italy, you know, in the depot, they got a fountain there. Well, there they didn't have it. I said, “There must be a place to get a drink of water.” So, this big tank hanging there would hold you. You know, I start sucking on there. It was a fire extinguisher. [interviewer laughs] I got a real gag in my throat.

I: Was there water in the fire extinguisher?

MB: Sure. There was some fluid in there.

I: Some fluid? You didn't know what?

MB: Yeah.

I: Well, what did you eat in all these travels?

MB: They gave me one--we left Boston. They gave us a loaf of bread. It was that big. But the next day, it was so damn hard you couldn't eat it. And then, they gave us one little square package of soda crackers and one square package of graham crackers, and that's what we had. So, the bread got so hard, I got home, I fed up we fed up the pig with that. [laughs] But anyway, on the…the depot there, they--I mean, the train--the guy come around and sell apples there or chocolate bars or whatever it was. And I can't talk, so he used to pick out what he wanted, take out a handful of money, and then he'll take whatever he wants. And I know that the first time he took--I don't know, he bought an apple and, you know, he--I didn't know the value of the money neither, but I could tell, you know. The next time, he took twice as much as he did the first time.

Transcript at 11 minutes and 55 seconds: (11:55)

I: Did you tell him?

MB: No.

I: Hey, hey, hey, hey.

MB: If you [unclear word] hawking, you [unclear word] so they buy from him more. So anyway, then we changed trains, and a different guy come there. And he was selling--they had bananas. I've never seen bananas in my life. So, we bought two bananas, Chester and I, and we started chewing on them, never took the skin off. [interviewer laughs] Everybody was laughing at us. Saying, “What in the hell are they laughing at?” So anyway, we travel all day, and that night, we get in to the lake here, and we're sitting on the train there. And two kids walking up and down the island never looking at us, and I told Chester, I said, “What the hell I think damn fool [unclear phrase] Why did I come over?” And he said, “Do you know me?” I said no. He said, “My brother Pete.”

I: It was your brother Pete.

MB: Yeah, he and the neighbor, they come down and meet us down there. So, I didn't ask him how are you or anything else. I said, “How soon do we get home?” He said, “We'll be home in a few minutes.” So, we get up at the depot though, and all they got snow on that beach (??).

I: How deep? Four feet?

MB: Oh, at least. At least four feet. You couldn't see a fence post any place in [inaudible word] there.

I: You were used to snow at all?

MB: Used to get three, four inches of snow and the next day it was gone. But anyway, we were over at the depot there, and my stepfather was there with a horse and a sleigh. And they took us down to the Italian boarding house, and they had a big spread there, and they said, [unclear phrase]. I ate and I ate and I ate. Well, I mean, when I was ashamed, I quit.

Transcript at 13 minutes and 44 seconds: (13:44)

I: You had to quit. I imagine you were hungry. What kind of food did they have for you?

MB: There? Oh God, they had everything. Roast and chicken and whatever they--oh God, they had...

I: It was all laid out because you were coming?

MB: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They had it. And so, we left there, and I went home. And my mother asked me, “You want a cookie?” I didn't even--I didn’t know what the hell a cookie was. She brought over a box, a three-pound box of them chocolate cookies filled with the… [pause]

I: Oreos?

MB: No.

I: Oh.

MB: Oh, I can't think of the name of them. You know, usually fried over a fire lid, and you--

I: Graham crackers type? No?

MB: No. No.

I: I don't remember.

MB: Well, they’re chocolate cookie. Anyhow, it’s real good, this. Chester and I sit there. We have the whole box. [laughs]

Transcript at 14 minutes and 48 seconds: (14:48)

I: You ate the whole box… I suppose you were happy to see your parents.

MB: Yes. Yeah.

I: At that time, your dad was working in the mine?

MB: No, he was dead.

I: He was dead when you came over here?

MB: Yeah, he was killed in 1918, and I came here in 1920.

I: Did you know about that? Did your mother write you letters and correspond with you?

MB: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I: Did she… Had she remarried by the time you got here? Who was her husband then? Your stepfather?

MB: John Zanardi [phonetic spelling]

I: Zanardi. Yeah, I know who that is. I know who that is. So, right away you started to work in the mines? That, you know, a week later, a month later, or when?

MB: A week or two, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I started to work. Surface first. I worked in surface. I think I worked a couple of months, and then I went underground.

Transcript at 15 minutes and 45 seconds: (15:45)

I: What was it like working in the mine back then?

MB: Well, it was tough.

I: Tough work.

MB: Yeah. Everything was by hand, you know, and you had to work. There was no union in them days. The boss told you to go do something, you did it, or if you don't want to do it, there's a lot of people out there that wants to do it, you know. It was either that or else.

I: Or else. And how much--about how much were you paid, and what was a working day like?

MB: Well, when I first started in the mine, they were paying four dollars sixteen cents a day, I guess I was getting, which was good money in them days. Well, then everything got kind of slacked in 1921, and they shut the mine down. And then, I got--went home for a few months and got work at the [inaudible word] mine. By that time, they had cut the pay down. I think it was three…three seventy-two, something around there, and I worked there for--well, and I went to--well, I went on a trip there. We went down around--early down there--around Iron River, you know.

I: By railroad?

MB: Yeah. I told you you couldn't get it out.

I: Were you married by then?

MB: No.

I: No? Was it… Did you work like twelve-hour shifts, or…?

MB: No. No, it was an eight-hour shift.

I: Eight-hour shift?

MB: Yeah, it was an eight-hour shift.

I: Yep.

Transcript at 17 minutes and 26 seconds: (17:26)

I: What were some of the mine bosses like, and what type of nationality were they?

MB: Well, they were mostly--well, the captains were all English.

I: All English?

MB: Yeah. All Cousin Jacks [Cornish] were captains. And the bosses, well, we had one [inaudible word] over here and [a few inaudible words] and a couple of Finn managers. They had to have some of them to talk to the managers. [laughs] You know, most of them were all guys that come over. In them days, they were coming over here by the trainload, you know. Immigration right after the First World War there.

Transcript at 18 minutes and 4 seconds: (18:04)

I: Was Princeton a big community then?

MB: Well, it was a lot bigger than it is now.

I: A lot bigger than it was now?

MB: Yeah. Yeah.

I: And where did the people, the workers, stay then?

MB: They had boarding houses. There were three boarding houses up in Austin over there. You know when you go down to the little brown house there?

I: Yeah.

MB: And there was two on the right side. Finn, you know, the Italian and the Austrian, and then there was the Finn boarding house across the road there. Then, there was a boarding house across the road here, English, and then one down the bottom of the hill there. I don't know what kind of nationality.

I: So, they segregated those houses. One was English.

MB: Yeah. Yeah.

I: And I didn't really realize that there was Austral—Austrians?

MB: There were quite a few of them out here.

I: And they also worked along--in the mines.

MB: In the mines.

I: They were laborers, in other words, miners.

MB: Yeah.

I: I see.

Transcript at 19 minutes and 8 seconds: (19:08)

I: And you said you had a mining accident one time. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

MB: Well, I've had a few mine accidents, but in one I fell down off of a raise about ten feet, head first. [laughs]

I: 10 feet or 110?

MB: 110.

I: 110 feet.

MB: Yeah, I landed on a track. I got up and walked out of there.

I: That must have been a miracle back then.

MB: It was. It's hard to believe, you know. You can go up there and look down. It was--that hole was about four feet square. Double compartments, one for the dirt and one for the... And that's what Chester and I would do. We'd pull it up and raise it there. You know, you’d go from one level to the other. We'd--say you've got 100 feet to 110 feet or 20 between one level and the other one. Well, then you start from there, and you put up a... Like a chimney went up, you know. It goes up about 72 degrees or 75 degrees. I couldn't go make it up on top. That's where they start mining. They dump the dirt in that compartment, the dirt compartment there. Go down to the next level and pick it out and hollow out the shaft. One time--I don't know what happened there--I leaned over to get something there, and I lost my balance and down I went.

I: Jeez. Hm. You cracked your ankle. You--what was…?

MB: We bruised up quite a bit.

Transcript at 20 minutes and 51 seconds: (20:51)

I: What were some of the mines here in Princeton? What were their names and...

MB: Well, the Princeton Mine here had three shafts. There was number two shaft over there, and then number one shaft down here, and number three shaft over by the highway.

I: By the highway.

MB: Yeah. None of them were the Alliston [can’t find anything close to this. Maybe Austin?] Mine that was down on the track. The Stephenson Mine, the Gwinn Mine, Francis Mine, and the Sears Mine, and they were all going at that time.

I: They were all going, full production. Were they all owned by the same company?

MB: Cleveland-Cliffs [Iron Company].

I: Cleveland-Cliffs. And how long did they go for before they really started to like go downhill?

MB: Well, 1927, they shut down the Stephenson Mine, the last mine going there. You--oh, a few years after, [19]28 or [19]29, they opened up the Sears Mine on it, and that's the only one that was going there. Then—oh, you know the mining company. They come in, and they bought this Gwinn Mine there. Archibald, they named it there. It used to be the Gwinn Mine then. When they bought it, they named it the Archibald. So, that was working then and the Sears Mine were the only two that were working.

Transcript at 22 minutes and 24 seconds: (22:24)

I: And you were still working at the mines at that time.

MB: Yeah.

I: What was the Depression like then?

MB: Pretty tough.

I: Pretty tough?

MB: Yeah. [laughs]

I: Did you ever go hungry, or did you always--

MB: No.

I: Never went hungry?

MB: No, I never went hungry. I had a couple of cows, and I keep a couple of pigs and chickens, and I had a garden, and I used to go out and shoot a deer once in a while whether it was season or not.

I: Whether it was season or not. Just to feed your family.

MB: That's right. Fishing, hunting. We never went hungry, but when it came to buying coal or, you know, some of the other necessities, it was pretty rough. I worked two years on WPA [Works Progress Administration] weekends, ten hours a day, two days a week, 25 cents an hour.

I: WPA?

MB: Yeah.

I: What was that?

MB: Public Work Administration.

I: What kind of public work?

MB: Yeah, on the road, fetching (??) roads and stuff like that mostly.

I: I see. Was it a government program?

MB: Yeah, yeah. Roosevelt administration.

I: And most of the men worked then doing that? Was there a lot of logging going on then?

MB: I was logging all the time. Some logging you could make--you start by working in a wood hotel (??). They would pay one cent a stick to cut out.

I: Back then. But then, this government program then, they paid you relatively low, but they at least paid you and kept you working.

MB: But you worked two days a week if it didn't rain because they had three crews. You know, one crew worked two days and the next crew and the next crew. So if it did rain on your day, well, you lost that day. So instead of five dollars a week, then you got two-and-a-half that week. [laughs]

Transcript at 24 minutes and 18 seconds: (24:18)

I: What were some of the prices for things then?

MB: Well, they were relatively cheap, you know, compared to what it is now. But like I say, they used to say you could buy a pound of hamburger for five cents, and if you haven't got the five cents, well, you don't get it.

I: That's true.

MB: You know, there was a lot of times I used to go by the tavern there and I felt like having a beer, but I didn't have the nickel. There was only a nickel for a beer, but if you haven't got the nickel, you don't get it.

I: So, the Depression years were rough.

MB: It's so relative, you know.

Transcript at 24 minutes and 50 seconds: (24:50)

I: What did the mines do for the people during the Depression?

MB: Well, the company there they…they tried. Like at times there, they were working two days a week, you know, the mine, sometimes three days. Like in the winter time, in the winter time, I never worked at WPA. I always went back to the mine in the winter time, and they'd give you two, three days a week. And even, say, when I was working at WPA there, you know, like hospital and water and electricity and that was all company, you know. And once in a while, they used to give me a day's work, you know, like doing something, anything at all, you know, even watchmen all around the mine or sometimes going to change a pole with an electric cruiser or anything like that, or enough to pay the...

I: You had to be a hustler though to get there.

MB: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But they—well, they plowed up a big field up here, and they gave us a chunk up there to plant potatoes. And then one time, they used to go way down to Stillman, they call it, just a few miles on the east side of Munising there. They had an extensive logging operation down there.

I: They had a big logging operation at Cleveland-Cliffs?

MB: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, well, there was a lot of wood left behind, you know, tops and logs. It was, you know, [inaudible word] down there. So, I'm up [inaudible word] a car there and one car load for every two families, and they haul it home for you on a truck, you know. [inaudible sentence] I mean, they were pretty big.

Transcript at 26 minutes and 35 seconds: (26:35)

I: That was good for you, then. I see. What was the doctors and some of the--back then in the [19]20s, what was the life generally like in Princeton as far as, you know, where did you get your bread and your other hardware?

MB: We had it easier than we have it now. The teacher used to come to the house every day.

I: Every day?

MB: Uh-huh. Old Joe Negrinelli [phonetic spelling] from New Swansey there and old John Ghiardi [phonetic spelling] from New Swansey in the winter, and Seas (??) used to have a store down at the bottom of the hill down there, used to come every day, take the order. You order whatever you want tomorrow, and they bring it. You know, the next morning, they'd come, bring it.

I: Fresh bread and...

MB: Yeah, and old John Negro [phonetic spelling] had a baker shop down in New Swansey, the one they just tore down here. Used to come every day with his wagon, you know. Kids used to follow him. We'd wait an hour, and then we would steal the cookies out of the wagon. [laughs]

Transcript at 27 minutes and 34 seconds: (27:34)

I: What year did you get married then?

MB: 1928.

I: 1928. Was your wife Italian then, too?

MB: Yeah. I went to Pennsylvania for that. Well, my brother and I, we had an uncle down there, so we went for a trip down there and visit there. That's where I got married, met my wife down there.

I: Met her in Pennsylvania?

MB: Mm-hm.

I: Was she an immigrant then, too?

MB: No, she was born here.

I: She was born here.

MB: Her dad was the immigrant.

I: And her dad lived in--

MB: Yeah, he was [inaudible crosstalk]

I: In Pennsylvania? Did he end up moving anywhere around the nation or just stayed there?

MB: No, he died there.

I: He died there. Do you know what type of work he did or anything?

MB: Mine, coal mine.

I: Coal mines then?

MB: Yeah.

I: Do you think… Was there a lot of Italians that…

MB: Oh, yeah.

I: …worked in the coal mines then on the eastern coast?

MB: [says something inaudible]

I: Did any of the people—

MB: I worked in a coal mine for about, I don't know, 7, 8 months.

I: What year was that then? Just after you got married?

MB: Before I got married.

I: Before you got married?

MB: I didn't like it. I didn't like the coal mine.

I: You didn't like the coal mine. Dirty?

MB: Yeah. Dirty, dangerous.

I: Why?

MB: Well, you worked in a place that's that high, you know, down on your knees in the [inaudible word]

I: Do you remember the city then?

MB: It was close to Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

I: Close to Johnstown.

MB: Ehrenfield was the name of the town.

I: Ehrenfield?

MB: Ehrenfeld.

I: Ehrenfeld?

MB: Ehren…Ehren… I don't know how the hell you...

I: Oh, Ehrenfeld?

MB: Mm-hm.

I: And it’s--

MB: The mine is still going on down here, over here.

I: You went there?

MB: That mine is still going. Yeah, I go down there. I still got a brother-in-law and sister-in-law down there.

I: Oh, I see.

MB: They come down here for a couple weeks there.

Transcript at 29 minutes and 36 seconds: (29:36)

I: So, do you know of any other Italians from this region that moved, or did you ever travel west to work in California or of the--any other states?

MB: No. No. I worked mostly here. I was down in Pennsylvania there. I worked in the coal mine there for about three months. You know, a long time we went for a trip there. We went down. We went to Chicago. We were trying to get a job. [tape cuts out]