Sid, Merty, & Milt Interview Tape 2

Merton, Milton, and Sidney Holman Interview, Tape 2

Transcription note

I had a hard time distinguishing between Merton and Sidney’s voices. Some of the identifications of the speakers are likely wrong.

Transcript at 0 seconds: (00:00)

Sidney Holman (SH): They were facing Cherry Street.

Russell Magnaghi (RM): Yeah, and there was a slaughter--when we ended on the other side, you were talking about a slaughterhouse. In, what, north of here?

SH: Yeah.

Milton Holman (MIH): The North Road, out of town by the rock cut.

Merton Holman (MEH): Yeah, it was down by the mouth of Teal Lake.

MIH: Down by the mouth of Teal Lake where the slaughterhouse was.

MEH: Where the crick come out of Teal Lake, down there in that corner. The people live there now.

SH: That's the northwest corner--northeast corner, I mean. Yeah.

RM: Then you think they just threw the waste down in the creek and got rid of it?

SH: Well…

MIH: Not the waste.

SH: Not quite this far. It wasn't quite up to the crick, but I imagine a lot of the stuff got there. I don't know exactly what they done with it. Did they truck it away and buried it or what? I don't know what they ever did with it.

MIH: Of course, they'd have to take it away with horses in them days. There were no cars.

SH: Did Collins own that slaughterhouse?

MIH: No.

SH: Who owned that? It's hard to say now, certainly. And the cattle were all local stuff from Negaunee then?

MEH: I don't know. Probably not.

MIH: They'd have to bring them in by train if they weren’t from Negaunee. There were no trucks or anything. And I know I've been out there. They didn't want people around, but I've been out there when they'd hoist a steer up by the hind legs and take that big sword and shove up in his throat into as long as the blood come out. They'd save that blood for blood sauce. They didn't waste that.

MEH: You could have something.

SH: Yeah, that sounds good.

MIH: The same thing with the pig. They hung him up. He’d squeal on you.

SH: Yeah, he’d squeal on you. Yeah.

MIH: Wow.

Transcript at 1 minute and 58 seconds: (01:58)

RM: Now, your family didn't process meat or anything here?

MIH: No.

RM: Okay. Talking about--were there any--did like your family--or did you know of any, if it wasn't your family--but Cornish people, did they make any sausage or processed meat that way? Did you know people that…

MIH: No.

RM: …did any of that? No.

MIH: Usually the Italians.

RM: Yeah.

MEH: Yeah, the Italians done a lot of that. They always had sausage hanging up in their basements and that.

RM: So, the Cornish wouldn't do that. Were the Italians like the only ones that didn't get (??)?

MEH: Mostly, I guess.

RM: So, you didn't have, like, Finns? You sort of don't remember Finns doing that?

MEH: About the only processing like that was--for us and maybe the Finnish people--bottling venison.

RM: Oh, explain that.

MEH: Well, they'd cook up a lot of it, a regular way of cooking meat, either baking it or whatever in the oven. Then, they'd sterilize their jars and cut the venison up in small pieces after it's cooked, stuff ‘em in the jars, put ‘em in a pressure cooker, [all laugh] and then put them in a regular cooker, you know, with a cap on it, and put the caps on there and the rubber rings on it, and that would seal them in. Then, you'd tighten them down.

RM: Mm-hm.

MEH: As much as I ever know about it.

SH: The venison that we had for meals was stored in a six-foot pine box out in the backyard. And, I mean, hopefully it stayed cold, because the venison that we had in those days, when you compare it with what we eat today, it was lousy because it wasn't taken care of like the stuff we have today. In those days, you would--they would chop it up, they would. I mean, I was never old enough to hunt it then, but they'd cut up that venison and throw it in that pine box just the way it is, full of tallow and everything. And when it came time, Ma would go get a chunk and clean it up and cook it while all that flavor had gone through that venison just sitting out there unwrapped. And--

RM: It was all frozen.

SH: Yeah, frozen.

RM: Yeah.

SH: But we had venison because you had to eat something.

MEH: Tasted better than the milk.

SH: I didn't think so.

MEH: Oh, you don't know.

MIH: Until we found out about snaring rabbits and rough grouse.

SH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MIH: Oh, we snared a lot of rough grouse.

SH: Game warden though, hey.

MIH: Well, fine.

SH: Unlawful, you know.

MEH: Yeah, you break the law, that lasts.

MIH: And lots of rabbits. Oh.

RM: Now, you brought those home to eat.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Right. And to make it legal, we'd set the snares in the evening and wake up in the morning so nobody's dogs would get into them. And money was sort of tight, and it was tough to get shells. When you pulled the trigger, you wanted to make sure you were gonna get something to eat. So if we had six rabbits, we'd line them all up in one bullet through all their heads. [laughs]

SH: Legalize.

MIH: Shoot them all at once. Make ‘em legal.

SH: Legalize snaring.

MIH: And we got the trick of tying a knot in the snare, would keep the rabbit from completely choking. So when we got there, he was still alive, so we'd hit him on the head behind the ears and break his neck. And then when they were still alive, they'd bleed better. All the blood would come out and wouldn't shoot through the head.

RM: Oh, okay.

SH: Yeah. Could hold up, say, 50 yards on a hop like that. [all laugh]

MIH: Same thing with rough grouse. They were always in the thorn apple trees. And the thorn apples, when they started dropping, we'd take a line of them and make a straight line like this and put a snare in the middle. And he'd come along picking them, and then the wire would get around his throat, and he'd fly and break his neck because they were filling their crop, you know, for the night.

MEH: My father made me quit that. I come home with six of them one night. He said, “That's enough of that.” He found out where we were going.

MIH: And slingshots. We made thousands of anything (??). And if you did something wrong, Mother get that slingshot in the stove. It would blow.

SH: Oh, that slingshot was made from a crutch (??) of a tree, of a maple. Did you make them? Yeah. And rubber bands with a leather socket.

MIH: Regular rubber in them days.

RM: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but that--

MIH: But we always had another one hidden somewhere. [laughs]

RM: So, this was the ultimate punishment.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Oh, yeah.

SH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RM: It helped keep the pop (??).

MIH: Yep. You don't want to lose your slingshot.

Transcript at 7 minutes and 32 seconds: (07:32)

RM: Now, would you go out hunting with the slingshot?

MIH: Oh, yes. Yep. Rough grouse, especially.

RM: Uh-huh.

MIH: And what we used quite a bit was jack pine cones because they were so hard. Right? They were as hard as a rock.

MEH: Oh, yeah.

MIH: And of course, we'd have a pocket full of nice rocks.

SH: Unfortunately, we also--I don't know about these guys, but these younger guys would see how many cherry birds and sparrows and--robins we weren't allowed to shoot because they were protected. We used to go kill songbirds. Sick. Makes you sick to think about it, huh? But you'd see one, you'd pick him up, swallows up on a wire, plucks, you know, just to see me hit them.

RM: Yeah.

SH: And then you put a notch in your crutch there, the slingshot.

MIH: Well, really, with a slingshot, you do get to be an expert because you use that every day. You didn't have to aim. It was just feel.

SH: Yeah, just up and pluck, you got him. It’s--yeah.

RM: Sort of like your mind, eyes, and slingshot were all together.

MIH: All together.

SH: Just like when these guys used to use that bow, you know, the other bow. Yeah. But God got even with me one time. I went over the fence of the caving grounds, and we always carried it around our neck, our slingshot. And I climbed over, and I jumped back, and the slingshot hung up on a wire. Just as I looked up, it comes out again right there. [all laugh] Not in the eye. Lucky.

MEH: You weren't supposed to go in the caving grounds. Off-limits, Sidney.

RM: Now, did you guys--did the young kids ever sell the songbirds to Italians for food?

SH: I've heard about that. I've heard about that, but we never did.

MIH: But about birds for food, the Italians used to love sparrow pie right there.

SH: Oh yeah, sure.

RM: Sparrow pie?

MIH: Sparrow pie down by the lake. They had winter snow fences down there. And in the mornings, them things against the sun were just full of sparrows, and they'd be down there waiting for them to get there, I think early in the morning when the sun is shining, and then blast them in. They'd take sparrows and make pies.

SH: I'm trying to think of who the Italian guy was that was telling me about when the birds that they used to get to eat. Was it robins?

MEH: Cherry birds.

SH: And robins, eh?

MEH: I don't know. But I know cherry birds. Susie's [phonetic spelling] father-in-law.

SH: Oh, yeah?

MEH: He used to--he had all them apple trees there. When they come for apple blossom, kill them all.

SH: Yeah?

MEH: Yeah. And peel them.

SH: Cherry birds, eh?

MEH: Yeah. Guido [phonetic spelling].

SH: Yeah.

MEH: Susie's father-in-law.

RM: Yeah, that's a big thing with Italians. Used to be. Used to be.

SH: Yeah, yeah.

RM: And then there--

SH: Oh. It was just in a paper, 90 years ago today, about how they had a... The state would pay so much for--two cents a sparrow.

MEH: A bounty, yeah.

MIH: A bounty, yeah.

SH: Two cents a sparrow, yeah.

MEH: Yeah, they had a bounty on them.

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Yeah, that was just a week ago in the paper. 90 years ago, I guess.

RM: So, the robins were the state bird and were--it was illegal to touch.

SH: Yeah.

RM: But the other ones were…

SM: Wide open.

RM: …open season.

SM: Yeah, when you think about it--

MIH: Probably because everybody had chickens, and them sparrows ate a lot of scratch meat.

MEH: Yeah.

Transcript at 11 minutes and 24 seconds: (11:24)

RM: Now, when the... When did sort of the... You know, like I think with the Cornish people, when did... Sort of today, you don't have the... I mean, people talk about... And if you're Cornish, you know, people, you know, you know about your culture and all, but it seems like today it's, by non-Cornish people, it's something of the past and it's gone. Was there some time when they sort of--the Cornish people--just blended in with, you know, the rest of the people and sort of... Like for instance today, do you keep up any of your--like these recipes and things or anything?

SH: Well, the pasties and the saffron butters. That's about it. But as far as...

MEH: Bully beef.

SH: Yeah, bully beef. You're the only one who makes that, I think. You make it too?

MIH: Oh, yeah, all of that. Sometimes, it's one thing. Bully boot (??) beef soup. Take a bone, a knuckle with a lot of marrow in it, and you get the guy in the butcher shop to cut the bone in half so the marrow is exposed and leave quite a bit of meat on that bone. And you boil that and boil it and boil it some more till that meat and all that, all, everything falls right off of the bone. And then, you add the ingredients, which is usually a can of tomatoes and quite a bit of onions chopped up and a handful of rice in there…

MEH: Celery.

MIH: …and a little celery and usually salt and pepper, and that's it.

RM: Now, is this a Cornish--

MIH: I think it's a Cornish because I don't know any other people that made it. You, Merton?

MEH: No, I don't know of anybody else.

MIH: Just…

MEH: They never… Most of them never heard of it.

MIH: Yep.

Transcript at 13 minutes and 29 seconds: (13:29)

RM: And this is called now bully beef?

MIH: Bully beef soup.

MEH: That's what my mother called it.

RM: Oh, bully beef. Okay. And this is a recipe that I could use.

MIH: Oh, yeah.

MEH: Oh, yeah.

RM: Okay, alright.

MIH: Oh, it's delicious.

RM: Uh-huh.

MEH: You can't buy soup that good. No way.

RM: So when the meat was boiling, cooking, you didn’t add--you just added cooking water and then at the end you put in the…the…

MIH: Ingredients and that.

MEH: Yeah, you can cook it for quite a while and then start the ingredients.

MIH: Yeah.

MEH: Put the rice last.

RM: Uh-huh.

MEH: The rice goes last so you don't get mushy.

RM: Yeah.

MEH: You know, too mushy.

RM: Yeah, okay. And that was something you ate on a regular basis.

MIH: Every week, I think.

MEH: Yeah, practically every week, bully beef. Well, we still make it all the time. I make it all the time.

RM: Uh-huh. What do you do, make a pot of it and then it lasts you several days?

MEH: Oh, yeah. Yep. You could make plenty and put it in your container and put it in the freezer.

RM: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

MIH: Yeah, I always like to take a cup of that when it's about halfway through and just sit there and drink it. Oh, that's lovely. It's heartwarming. [laughs]

MEH: Yeah, that's good stuff. Oh, that is delicious.

MIH: Nowadays, the way they have meat in the store, it's hard to find a bunch (??) of beef bones…

MEH: A decent one, yeah.

MIH: …because everything comes filleted.

RM: Yeah.

MIH: No bones.

RM: Yeah.

Transcript at 15 minutes and 0 seconds: (15:00)

SH: Did you tell them about your pigs’ knuckles?

MIH: No. Oh, them are delicious.

RM: Okay, tell us about them.

SH: You're talking about pig hock pie?

MEH: Pig hock pie. Pig hock. Pig hock, pig hock pie, yeah. Do you know the recipe for pig hock pie?

SH: Not much. I don't know.

MIH: I don't know, but I've tried it, but I couldn't get it like my mother could. It almost turns like glue, the meat and the...

SH: The gelatin.

MIH: There's lots of gelatin on it. Oh, just to pull those pig hocks or pig feet apart and suck on the bones.

SH: You used to like it.

MIH: Yeah, get all that out of there.

SH: That was never my thing. [laughs]

MIH: Oh, that was delicious.

RM: So, it wasn't in a pie. It was just the--

MEH: She used to make a pie, though.

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Make a pie out of it.

MEH: Make a pie, too, put a crust over it.

MIH: Yeah, with the hocks, you--well, if they were small hocks, sometimes they left the bones in it. Otherwise, they cooked all the meat off of the bones and put the meat in there.

SH: What was the hock, this part here?

MIH: Yeah, just above the foot.

RM: And then, what were some of the ingredients that went into that?

MEH: Well, they made a gravy with it. And then, you had mashed potatoes and carrots on the side, gravy. And then, they made a gravy just like we did rabbit pie and that, you know. Take the gravy and the pig hocks and mashed potatoes and peas and that on the side.

MIH: And then for the wintertime, we always had a barrel of apples in the basement. You could smell them all winter long. Remember that, when we had this big barrel in the basement?

MEH: Yeah, that was in the little cellar. I don't think he remembers that.

MIH: And you put a layer of sawdust in the bottom and a layer of apples then a layer of sawdust all the way up to the top. They--really, in them days, there wasn't any fruit in the stores because they couldn't keep it, and that's the way we kept our apples for Christmas.

MEH: The sawdust would keep the apples from sweating so they don't get all mushy.

MIH: They'd take up the moisture.

MEH: Yeah.

SH: You know, but as far as Cornish stuff, it doesn't seem to me like we lived in a Cornish community.

MIH: Not anymore.

SH: Or even before.

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Even when I was a kid, it doesn't seem like it was Cornish.

Transcript at 17 minutes and 42 seconds: (17:42)

RM: So it was mostly--I mean, the food that you had, the things you did were in the house.

MEH: That was Cornish, yeah.

RM: And when you'd go out, you'd go out to school and so on.

MEH: Yeah, like the neighbors, the Swedes, they made beautiful potato sausages.

MIH: Oh, yeah. And in our house, I don't think we ever had any coffee in our house.

MEH: No, never.

MIH: Always tea.

MEH: Yeah. Yeah, there was never coffee.

MIH: No coffee in the house.

RM: Do any of you drink coffee today?

MEH: I drink coffee. In the coffee house, I drink coffee. And then at night, I drink tea.

RM: Oh? And the two of you?

MIH: Well...

SH: I haven't made coffee for a year.

MIH: But I do drink coffee.

SH: There's coffee over there.

MIH: I'm gonna have a cup. When we wanted a cup of coffee, we'd go up to Warrenstrom's [phonetic spelling]. And in them days, when you wanted to know some--get a hold of somebody, your friend, you didn't just open a gate and go in the yard. You had to holler to do them from outside the gate.

MEH: Oh, Woof!

MIH: Oh, Woofie! That's what you had to do, and then you were invited in. And Mrs. Warrenstrom always made homemade doughnuts. And coffee she had. And, oh, when you get up there and had a cup of coffee and a doughnut, that was something.

RM: Now, this is when you were kids.

MIH: When we were kids.

MEH: When we were kids, yeah.

SH: Yeah, the old call-out. “Oh, Yut!” That's me, Yut, and it's been Yut from four years old, I guess. And someone would be out there hollering, “Oh, Yut!” And then you'd just, “Come on in!”

MEH: You know where you got that Yut name, eh?

SH: From yutmeal.

MEH: Yeah, you couldn't say oatmeal.

SH: Yeah.

MEH: I want my yutmeal.

SH: Yeah, yeah.

MEH: I want my yutmeal, ma.

SH: And it stuck. It stuck to the point where my gal who I married was working in Detroit, and this guy in the office says, “Hey Mary, your boyfriend's picture's in the paper.” And she looks in there and she says, “Corporal Sidney Hall. I wonder if that's Yut?” She said she didn't know any Sidney. It was Yut. [RM laughs] Yeah, it still stuck.

Transcript at 20 minutes and 20 seconds: (20:20)

RM: Now, did everybody--did you guys have nicknames as well, or no?

MEH: Just Mert and Milt, that’s all.

SH: Mert and Milt. There was Shorty, and my brother Bobby's name was Halm. And Guzzy. The oldest one was Guzzy.

MEH: Guzzy's name was Joe. [laughs]

SH: Yeah, Guzzy's name was Joe, yeah. Yeah.

MEH: Joe's name was Guzzy.

SH: And there was Mitzi.

RM: So, they kind of--you kind of all got…

SH: Nicknames, yeah.

RM: …nicknames.

MEH: Mabel and Bubbles.

SH: Everybody used to have nicknames at some time.

RM: Everybody around town?

SH: Yeah.

MEH: Yeah.

MIH: Yeah, we won't mention some of the names. [laughs]

RM: Were they that bad?

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Take this guy they used to go call Woofie. His name was Ralph. Oh, Woof.

RM: Yeah, that was a bad one.

SH: Yeah. Woofie. Woofie Weinstein. Sweet.

Transcript at 21 minutes and 20 seconds: (21:20)

RM: Okay, are there any--is there anything I sort of missed? We talked about the food and, you know, growing up and some of the stories. Anything I missed that you want to add or…?

MIH: Well, we won't talk about Ariakas [phonetic spelling].

SH: Ariakas. Yeah.

MEH: Yeah, that’s just…

SH: That’s just one of the old stories. Ariakas. Guzzy used to run that one through.

MIH: It was a little bit dirty.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: I never liked it.

SH: Yeah. He used to run that through if we were out camping somewhere. Ariakas.

MIH: You want me to look at that?

RM: Now, let's see.

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Well, I don't think we gave you much to go on.

RM: Yeah, you did quite a bit. No, this has been--I mean, this has been very informative all the way around, you know, about your family and the Cornish and the community and whatnot. This’ll be good. Now, just repeat for that. I have it back on. What did your mother used to say? Never…never heard tell ‘em.

MIH: Never heard of them. Never heard tell of them.

SH: Just come on. Never hear tell them.

RM: Okay, and she was the person that wouldn't pronounce the H.

MEH: That's right.

SH: Yes. What was that one time she said, ernia? You wouldn't think ernia was spelled with a H, would you? [laughs]

Transcript at 22 minutes and 47 seconds: (22:47)

RM: Now, now what--you know, you talk about your mom having the dialect. How about your dad?

SH: Yeah. He was.

RM: He had it.

SH: Yeah.

RM: He didn't lose it working in the mines?

SH: No.

MIH: No.

RM: He kept it.

SH: It wasn't as pronounced as Ma's was because he mixed more outside.

RM: Yeah, yeah. Now, did he work with--you know, just in general. You're not gonna, you know, have numbers. Did he work with a lot of Cornish miners and…?

MEH: The mine was mixed, eh?

MIH: Yeah, the mine was all mixed up.

MEH: Let’s see. The last guy I remember him working with was in Ishpeming by the name of Butcher.

SH: Butcher.

MEH: Butcher.

SH: Oh, yeah?

MEH: Butcher. What happened to him in the mine? He got badly injured or killed, I gather.

SH: Yeah.

Transcript at 23 minutes and 41 seconds: (23:41)

RM: Now, when did your--just so we have all the information. Do you remember the birth dates of your father?

MEH: Is it in here?

SH: It's in here somewhere.

MEH: You've got glasses on. [pause]

MIH: What was this tag, Marty? Was that father's due bill?

MEH: Yeah.

SH: It was a check, sort of.

MEH: It was a check number.

MIH: This is what they took with them and then put it back up on the wall when they came up?

MEH: Yeah.

MIH: You know about that, right?

RM: Yeah.

MEH: Yeah, that was from underground.

RM: To make sure they were all out.

MIH: Yeah.

MEH: No, that wasn’t there. [whole unclear sentence] …his name?

RM: No, these are just the children.

SH: That front one there... Here it is, 1870 census, [inaudible word].

RM: Joseph. He's a blacksmith.

SH: Okay, that would… I wonder... That wouldn’t be our father.

RM: Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. This was eight...now.

SH: 1871, age 75.

RM: He was 75.

SH: So, that would be...

RM: 45.

SH: That would be...

RM: His father.

SH: Maybe. Back farther than that, maybe.

RM: Yeah.

Recording note: [someone says something inaudible]

SH: Maybe my dad wasn't born yet? [says something inaudible]

MEH: They find some birth dates in there.

SH: Yeah, yeah, that'll give it to you. Yeah, you'll get to their... I'll get pictures right up front there, and they'll let you know. [long pause] There'll be a picture of him, I think, with… [pause]

Transcript at 26 minutes and 1 second: (26:01)

RM: Let's see.

SH: Cousin Jack coffee, Russ?

RM: Yeah.

SH: I don't know what it will be like. It might be kind of strong.

RM: Let's see, he was born July...13th? 13th, 1883. Joseph Holman.

MEH: That sounds right, yeah.

SH: What are you looking for, Clayton? Here.

RM: And then he passed...he passed away.

MEH: He went down the bottom. He was 70... Was he 75 or 70? About 75, maybe.

SH: 79, I think.

MEH: Oh, yeah? 79?

SH: You want something in it?

RM: Some sugar.

SH: Some sugar? It might be deadly. You got sugar, Clayton? Yeah.

RM: Let's see, then. Louisa Leverton Holman born March 17th, 1887, died December 23rd, 1888.

SH: 1988.

RM: Excuse me, 1988. December 23rd, 1988.

MIH: I got it.

SH: Yeah, that's good. You want some more milk, Milton?

MIH: No, I want a bowl of bully beef soup. [laughs]

SH: Coming right up. [MIH laughs] What do you want in there, Milton? Treacle?

MIH: Yeah, a little bit of…

SH: Treacle.

MEH: Right there.

SH: You're not going to put that in there, are you?

MIH: Oh, yeah.

SH: 200 bucks a pint, you're going to blow it like that?

MEH: You guys are spoiled rotten.

MIH: Instead of sugar. Sugar ain't good for you. [laughs]

SH: 200 bucks a pint, and you're going to dump it in there.

MIH: Money ain't no object now. It used to be when my dad used to bring home a candy bar, and he had to cut it in nine pieces. [laughs] One candy bar.

SH: Easy there, Milt.

MIH: Divide it up.

SH: [says something inaudible]

MIH: Now, hand me a spoon over there. Thank you.

SH: Did you see that label on there? Oh, here you are. [something inaudible] I need some more labels, too. Bobby's gone to Florida.

MIH: You need some more of these labels?

SH: Yeah, I'm gonna get some.

MEH: What do you think of maple?

SH: Canned corn milk?

MIH: Yeah.

RM: [something inaudible] …maybe get some of this information not to take this. Does Joe at Northern [Michigan University] have a copy of this book?

SH: Yes. Yes.

MEH: Oh, yeah. Yeah, he does.

SH: Maybe I'll just...

MIH: Bertie, pardon me. You got a napkin for him?

SH: Yeah, as a matter of fact, he did...

MIH: Is this running out?

RM: Yeah.

Transcript at 29 minutes and 0 seconds: (29:00)

MIH: About pasties is when Mom made pasties, that was about the only meal that you could eat away from the table. And she'd take a pasty out and wrap it in a brown paper bag, pieces of brown paper bag, and you were allowed to go out on the back stoop and eat that. Remember?

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Everybody took their pasty and went outside there and ate it.

SH: Yeah, on the back porch.

MIH: And then the neighbors, which are usually well-to-do, and, oh, they could smell that pasty, and they'd go cry to their mother or their woman they could have anything to eat. [all laugh]

SH: Yeah, the odor out there.. [MIH laughs] It was something.

MIH: Yep.

SH: And from the [inaudible word] Creek School...

MIH: He got me in trouble one time.

SH: Well, you had it coming, you bugger.

MIH: He was bugging me, …

SH: I was a nice boy.

MIH: …and I got a hold of him, and I...I cuffed him up a little bit. And he went and told Ma, and I was sort of scared to come in the house. So, she baited me in with a pasty. “Come on in here and get your pasty, boy.” [laughs]

SH: He got his pasty, alright.

MIH: My belly was bigger than...

SH: Than your brain.

MIH: Her baby boy.

SH: Yeah. I think Thursday was always pasty day.

MIH: Mm-hmm.

Recording note: [cut in tape]

Transcript at 30 minutes and 42 seconds: (30:42)

RM: Okay.

MEH: On Thursday, one of us, it was our job to take the pasty to father out at the mine. At dinner time, everybody’d come up from underground for lunch. In them days, they don't know (??) work. But it was one of our jobs that one of us, every Thursday, had to take that pasty to...to the mine for father.

MIH: And be there on time. No shootin' any chipmunks.

MEH: No. Get there on time and get a little corner of the pasty for your trip. [all laugh]

MIH: Yeah, you can bet, boy, that was something.

MEH: We used to always wait for him to come up the alley with his bucket, too, because usually there'd be something left in there.

RM: Oh.

MEH: We could rip that off.

MIH: Or a candy bar.

MEH: Yeah.

MIH: We didn't have too much money.

SH: It was strange. Everybody in those days was poor, but nobody knew it. I mean, everybody was in the same boat. Ten kids in a family. We were one of the... We were down close to the bottom of the running for money or anything…

MIH: Oh, yeah.

SH: …with ten kids.

MEH: I don't think anybody had any money.

MIH: No, if you got caught with a dollar, they almost hauled you off to jail right away. You didn't have no business having a dollar bill. [laughs]

RM: Yeah, that'd be...that’d be--at that time.

Transcript at 32 minutes and 21 seconds: (32:21)

RM: So everybody ate--drank tea, and you had pasties Thursday. Did your mother have, like, you ate certain things on certain nights, pretty much a pattern. Monday night would be something, Tuesday night would be something, or…

MEH: I don't remember.

RM: Just the pasties were on Thursday.

MEH: Yeah, pasty Thursday. That was... That was it.

RM: Did, for instance, she serve any--sometimes people have a big meal on Sunday, like a chicken dinner or something like that. Did she do anything like that?

MEH: Not too often.

MIH: We had chicken.

MEH: We had chicken, so--

MIH: We ate chicken a lot.

MEH: We ate quite a bit of chicken.

RM: But you wouldn't do something special on Sunday or something?

MIH: Well...

RM: People [inaudible word]...

MIH: Go to church.

RM: Yeah.

MIH: Maybe twice during Sunday.

SH: My father had breakfast Sunday morning. Codfish.

MIH: Oh, codfish.

SH: Without fail. Codfish. Yeah.

RM: Explain what that--

SH: It's been forever. It would be--I mean, a cod was salted. It was a filleted salted codfish that they cut up as much as they wanted and put it in a pot and leave it to boil. And then, you had to boil it and then swish it out and boil it again to get the salt out of it. But...yeah. It would stink up the whole house, of course. But that was good, eh? You can't get it any more. That was really good.

RM: What did you--and then, how was it…how was it cooked? It was boiled.

SH: Just boiled. Yeah, and then you'd put butter on it.

RM: Yeah.

SH: And--

MIH: Salt and pepper.

SH: Didn't need salt.

MEH: Didn't need salt.

MIH: No.

SH: Some pepper, yeah. But that was Sunday morning without fail.

MEH: Yeah. Codfish Sunday morning.

SH: Yeah, yeah. And that came all the way with it from over there.

RM: Uh-huh. Okay.

MIH: But mainly for breakfast, we always had oatmeal.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Oatmeal, oatmeal, oatmeal.

SH: Any other day was oatmeal.

MIH: Every day.

SH: I tell you, my ma was 101 and she was eating oatmeal every day.

MIH: Every. I still--

SH: So do I, yeah.

MEH: We all do.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Yeah.

Transcript at 34 minutes and 34 seconds: (34:34)

RM: Is--now, did you have the, you know, the quick cook?

SH: No, there was no such...

MEH: But you had the little...

MIH: Regular.

MEH: The regular.

SH: Yeah.

RM: Well, like they have now. You get them from Scotland and Ireland.

SH: I get that stuff down in Marquette. I get 25 pounds at a time down on...Washington Street?

RM: Oh, at the health foods store.

SH: Yeah.

RM: Yeah.

SH: You know what I’m talking about.

RM: Yeah.

SH: And, yeah, it's extra thick organic stuff.

RM: Yeah.

SH: Yeah.

RM: You have to cook it for about 30 minutes.

SH: Uhh, 15 minutes. Yeah.

MEH: But it's--there's something to it.

RM: Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's a lot better than the--

MIH: The quick.

SH: And then, we put this on there now.

MIH: Oh ho, then you got something.

SH: Yeah.

MEH: Goose leg gold.

MIH: Yeah, I don't use no sugar on my oatmeal anymore. [inaudible crosstalk] Sidney gave us an eyedropper to take that out. [all laugh] He gave all of us an eyedropper.

SH: I taped it right to the bottle. [all laugh] Use sparingly.

Transcript at 35 minutes and 39 seconds: (35:39)

RM: Now, how did you get involved in making maple syrup?

SH: I don't know. I got a place--this friend of mine got killed in Korea, and I wound up with some land from him. And I got my goose leg out here, and I started making maple syrup. Started making it. The first--one of the first years--this is a good one. We had a lean-to with a tarp over it, and we had an old sauna stove in there. We were cooking on top of the sauna stove, an iron sauna stove, so you had to really get that stoked up to get the sap boiling. Well, you cook all day, and you might get maybe a quart of syrup. So, these guys came out there. My brother-in-laws came out. I had to go somewhere. So I said, “Now, you guys keep cooking this.” And I said, “When you get it cooked down, put it in this jug right here.” So, they cooked away until dark, and they finally got it down to where it was almost syrup. And they put--and they poured it into that jar. And what I didn't know is that I had used that jar before to get syrup out of the tree, and in the bottom, I had a hole. And all of it ran right out the bloody bottom of it. [laughs] And I think [Morris] McCuen could have killed me. [all laugh] But it's a real good hobby. They come out there every year. We have a bunch of stuff there.

RM: How much do you make?

SH: I get about ten gallons.

RM: Oh.

SH: Of course, most of it gets given away.

RM: Yeah.

SH: At 200 bucks a pint, I make big bucks.

MEH: He don't like it. He gives it all away.

SH: Yeah. Yeah, he loves it. The--yeah, I get 200 bucks a pint, but nobody's paid me yet. So... [all laugh] It's amazing how much wood it takes to make that much right there.

RM: Yeah.

SH: Yeah, you figure--last year was a really--the spring before this past one, I had 70 gallons of sap in this first batch I was making, and that's six pints of syrup. You figure that's over 100 to 1. Usually it's like 35 or 40 to 1, but that winter was weird, warm and cool and warm and cool, and something happened to the sugar content.

RM: Yeah.

MEH: I hope this isn't going to be another one.

RM: Because what is the usual proportion? 40 gallons?

SH: 35 or 40 to 1. Yeah.

RM: And this was 100?

SH: At least, yeah. 70 gallons got me six pints. I mean, you just keep cooking and nothing's happening. You just keep putting it in and cooking, and it keeps evaporating away.

MIH: [inaudible word] …going out the steam.

SH: Yeah, nothing's showing up.

Transcript at 38 minutes and 46 seconds: (38:46)

RM: So, you don't do this for--as kind of a business. It’s just for fun.

SH: Yeah, it's just a hobby.

MEH: Monkey business.

SH: Monkey business.

MIH: He's out to bush.

SH: Yeah. And then, these guys conned me, and they put in some tubing. Well, you've got to go high tech. You've got to have tubing. Because where the sugar bush is, it's on the side of the hill. They said, “Why don't you do that? Why are you so stupid?” So I said, “Okay.” So, I put one line in. I had about 12 trees on it. It would come down right into a barrel right on the road there, you know. And so they said, “Why don't you put in another one?” So, I put in another one. So, they kept trying to con me. I said, “No, I'm not putting anymore. That's it.” Well, as it turned out, I would have to bleach those lines out and rinse them out real good in the spring, you know, after you're done, and then I'd do it again the next year before I started again. But the flavor changed. It was different. You couldn't see each tree. You know, if you've got a pail on it, you can see what's coming out of it, and some of them run kind of dark. And I don't know why they do that. I suppose there's a blemish in the tree that gets in there. And I said, “Eh.” So, they're gone. I got all pails again, and it's cleaner.

MIH: So now, you've got no high tech.

SH: No more high tech. It's gone back to ground level.

RM: So, the--but it might also be the passage through the plastic. Some of that’s not--

SH: Well, that's got something to do with it because the last line I pulled down last year, there was a freeze up and then it would start again. And the pails were running good, but the plastic line wouldn't. It was frozen. It would thaw out and still, even when I pulled the spout out, it had started to seal. It started to heal itself.

RM: Ahh.

SH: So if it's not got a free run, it backs up and starts to heal itself.

RM: I guess what you have to do, you're supposed to have a pump…

SH: Well…

RM: …to get that stuff out.

SH: Yeah, if you've got a pump, but then what they do is they're sucking it out of the tree sometimes.

RM: Oh, yeah.

SH: And I think maybe the tree's giving out more than it should.

RM: Yeah.

SH: You know what they used to do? And this is only a few years ago. They drill a hole. They’d put in--what is it that they put?

MIH: Oh…

SH: They put…

MIH: Formaldehyde.

SH: Formald--they put a formaldehyde tablet in the end of the hole they put the spout in. And then, naturally, nothing would grow in there. It would keep flowing. And I asked this guy, I says, “Well, formaldehyde,” I said, “that's poison.” He says it all evaporates away when you cook it. I says, “You don't know that.” I said, “What about the guy in there that's cooking it? That stiff guy standing in the corner, what about him?” Yeah, they used to do that.

MEH: You mean the guy with his eyes closed?

SH: Yeah, that one. Yeah.

MEH: Formaldehyde.

SH: Formaldehyde, A formaldehyde tablet. Yeah. Yeah, and the guy even gave me some.

RM: Maybe it burned off.

SH: It might evaporate away. It might, but you don't know that. And I looked at that, and I said, “I go through all that work to get something pure and then put this crap in there.” I said, “I don't think so.”

RM: Yeah. That's kind of interesting, you talking about the, you know, the plastic tubing which I heard about, you know. It sounds good. It keeps it all clean, but then you're getting--

SH: Usher, Bill Usher [phonetic spelling] down at Watson down there, he had what's his name come and put in all plastic lines. He had all pails. This guy came in with all plastic lines. The next year, I went down, and I said, “Well, how did it go, Bill?” He said, “Pulled them all out. It ain't the same.” He said. And that cost him big bucks to have it all done. He said, “It's not the same,” so he pulled them all out and now he's back to pails again.

RM: Yeah. Do you use a wooden pail?

SH: Plastic pail.

RM: Plastic pail.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Usually go around to Mr. Donut or something like that. They use a lot of frosting.

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Pie filling and that.

RM: Yeah. Yeah, interesting.

SH: Yeah. It's a good hobby.

RM: Yeah.

MIH: Yeah, you can pick up them pails for nothing, right?

SH: Yeah, I have. But there are some people who will sell them for a buck a piece or something.

MIH: Yeah, right.

RM: You almost think they would just want to get rid of it.

SH: Some of them do, yeah.

RM: [inaudible crosstalk] Pails and…

SH: Yeah.

MIH: Well, especially, you know, now when everybody was feeding deer and that, everybody wanted pails.

RM: Oh, yeah.

MIH: And then, they start selling them.

SH: They use a lot of them on the boats down Lake Superior, too, for something. Yeah, for fishing.

MIH: Yeah, I supplied boats on Lake Superior. For E and J Williams [phonetic spelling], and that was the worst job I ever had. The regular guy that did it would get sick. I was a meat cutter there, and I had to pick up and haul that meat and everything there. And out there on Lake Superior when the wind is blowing, and they throw a cargo net over the side, and you've got to unload that truck in there, and then they lift it in. Boy, I hated that job. I moved on there pretty quick.

Transcript at 44 minutes and 31 seconds: (44:31)

RM: This was working at the dock in Marquette?

MIH: Yeah. The one out there by the power plant out north.

RM: Oh, you mean loading up food or something?

MIH: Yeah, the ships coming in got all their groceries from E and J Williams. He had that business. Yep, and they, you know they--quarters of beef and all that that, they had. I hated that job.

SH: Do you get the idea that we don't have a very complicated life?

RM: Sounds like a real good life.

MIH: Yeah, we enjoy it.

SH: It's real slow and easy. We bump into each other out the bush up on a river fishing up there or something. And then, I haul my trailer out there in the spring of the year, and I usually catch enough fish. And then, we all go out and have a fish fry and get drunk.

RM: Oh.

MEH: Most of the guys don’t go where we go because they couldn't get in there with their wheelers.

SH: Yeah, you've got to walk. You've got to walk in there. Yeah.

Transcript at 45 minutes and 39 seconds: (45:39)

MIH: We had a little ditty--I don't know if yous guys remember that or not--about beautiful, beautiful Michigan with beautiful fluffy white snow. This is--uh, we're proud of our forefathers who shot at the buck and the doe. You can go jumping at Suicide Hill or enjoy riding out to caves, but still in beautiful Michigan, you're free to--I forget.

SH: I've never heard that before.

MIH: No?

SH: Out the caves is a place you just swim over.

MIH: Oh, you're free to go riding on barrel staves.

SH: Yeah, barrel staves were skis, yeah. Mm-hm. Staves were skis.

MEH: Yeah, the caves are right there behind that.

MIH: Behind those…

MEH: Behind them trees there.

RM: Oh.

SH: Those wooden barrels, you know, that big, you take the slabs off them with staves and make skis out of them.

MEH: Put a toe strap on there and away you go.

SH: Yeah, yeah.

MIH: Well, you used to.

MEH: Call ‘em wigglers, eh?

SH: Yeah, wigglers. Yeah, wigglers.

MIH: You used to take a piece of two by four about that long for your foot and screw that from the bottom of the barrel stave, and then you had a slot going up between the barrel stave and that, and that come over your toe.

SH: Then, you'd have the back straps off of a tire or two that you cut, so you round--you put them around your ankle and flip them over your toe and that, you know, so it'd pull against your ankle and the toe and it'd keep your foot up. And away you go.

MIH: That was our skis.

MEH: Skateboarding years ago. [all laugh]

SH: We were way ahead of the game.

MEH: Yeah.

SH: Didn't even know it.

Transcript at 47 minutes and 21 seconds: (47:21)

RM: Now where--and would you do ski jumping on small hills?

MIH: Out there in the head caves.

MEH: Out in the cave. We had a hill back there that we used to play around on down in the caves.

MIH: And the caves were deep.

MEH: Yeah.

MIH: There was no water in them when the mines were running.

MEH: We had two hills over here, Boneyard and Box Springs, …

MIH: Yeah.

SH: Oh, yeah.

MEH: …and I got hurt on Box Springs.

SH: Boneyard. Yeah, there was a boneyard there, wasn't there?

MEH: People, I guess, maybe went to slaughterhouse used to throw all their bones.

SH: Yeah, maybe, eh?

MEH: Yeah. Box Springs and by Hopps' [phonetic spelling] farm.

SH: Box Springs. They boxed in the spring, I suppose.

MEH: Yeah, there was a spring there where the horses used to drink out of, and then they had a ski hill there.

MIH: And the night that the ground caved in here, the surface gave away. I think everybody in Negaunee felt that, and it just happened one night. I think we were going skiing the next morning, and we were starving and we were going down towards the brash. We walked up on that, and the sand was still sliding down.

SH: That's how dumb we were.

MIH: We back-wheeled out of there. But then later, you know, we were using--I had a bump on the edge of the pit and jumped down.

SH: Into the cave, yeah. In the new cave.

MIH: And that sand was so runny sometimes, it was tough to get back up to the top because it was...

Transcript at 49 minutes and 7 seconds: (49:07)

RM: So, when you talk about the cave, you're talking about caving ground.

MIH: Yeah, caving ground.

RM: Not a cave.

MIH: No, no.

SH: The Maas Mine was right up here at the end of the street and the Negaunee Mine was over there, and it's all caved in between them.

MIH: Yeah, and the caves were deep and, oh, I guess some of them were 40 across, eh, or more.

MEH: Yeah.

SH: Oh, that big one.

MEH: That big one over there.

MIH: Yeah. Maybe a half mile gone at once.

SH: The cows went too, eh?

MIH: Cows. That was over by the Athens Mine. Wasn’t it, Mert?

MEH: Yeah.

SH: Is that where we picked up one of our dogs from there? Did we get a dog after that? We had Sheffy, and then we had Jip. Did Jip come from that cave-in?

MEH: I don't know.

MIH: Could have. But, you know, when the miners were going to work, they used to cross this going from, you know, from town into work, and that's the ground that caved in, and none of them got trapped in it. Yep.

MEH: Lucky.

MIH: It happened at the right time.

Transcript at 50 minutes and 14 seconds: (50:14)

RM: Yeah. Oh, so this was all before it was fenced off. This was--

MIH: Oh, yes.

RM: This was still in use.

MIH: Oh, yeah.

RM: I mean, the streets were there and all.

MEH: You know, when they checked this ground between the two mines here, they had a row of telephone poles right back here on the edge of the cave. And before it caved, they had a row of telephone poles all the way to the Negaunee Mine across from the Maas Mine, and they had drilled back there. And they had a cable on all those telephone poles, and then they had a safety line they hooked on the cables. And then, they were back there drilling to find out how far the ledge was broken off. They drilled all the way across there, and right behind the fence, there was one big drill hole right just behind my other garden there. There's a pipe about that big where they drilled.

MIH: About a four—fourteen-inch pipe.

MEH: Pretty big pipe.

MIH: Yeah.

MEH: And then, I think they had a seismograph back there, too, on top of that. There's a hole in the top of that there pipe over there. They got it welded shut.

MIH: Oh.

MEH: I think they had a seismograph or whatever to tell you what's moving down and under there.

Transcript at 51 minutes and 34 seconds: (51:34)

SH: They had to have speakeasies, too, didn't they in those days?

MIH: Yeah. And then, they used to have a sulky track here where the ground caved in. Didn’t they, Mert?

MEH: What?

MIH: Shiverettes [phonetic spelling] had that sulky track.

MEH: Oh, yeah. Oh, I heard about that. They used to call it the race course.

MIH: Yeah.

MEH: From right behind that apple tree over there behind the garden was a cinder track that went all the way over to the Negaunee Mine and back around. Shiverettes lived right here on the corner, and they had race horses, and they ran sulkies around there. Yeah.

MIH: They had lots of races there.

MEH: Oh, yeah.

MIH: Oh, them are beautiful horses. Yeah.

SH: And I don't remember that part of it.

MEH: You don't remember that race course, eh?

RM: Now, Sid, you brought up--you were bringing something up about the speakeasies?

SH: Oh, Lindberg's [phonetic spelling] store. Yeah, it was a place where there was lots of drinking going on, but--

MIH: In the back room.

SH: Yeah, in the back room. That gang from over there—oh, from different streets all over the place there, you know.

MIH: All different.

SH: You go over to Lindberg’s, and they had the beer stashed in the back room, and those guys would be there every day. Somebody would be back in there. It was a convention there just about [laughs] every day.

RM: Now, this was, what, during Prohibition or…?

SH: No, it was after that.

RM: Oh, after that.

SH: Yeah.

RM: So, it was just a hangout.

SH: Yeah, it was.

MEH: Just a hangout, yeah.

MIH: Illegal to drink on the premises.

SH: It was at the grocery store. Yeah.

RM: Oh, I see. It was a grocery store…

SH: Yeah.

RM: …and people in the back drinking. Yeah. Okay.

SH: Yeah. But that was quite an attraction. A lot of guys used to show up there.

MEH: Yep.

SH: Right now, I just saw Joe Giroux [phonetic spelling] come through that door. [all laugh]

MEH: Yeah, Joe Giroux and Bull Leaf.

SH: Yeah, Bull.

MIH: Barrelhead Roy.

SH: Bull Leaf.

MEH: Nice names, huh?

SH: Barrelhead and Bull and, yeah.

MIH: Barrelhead Roy. He had his head on him like that.

SH: Bull, he says that his --poor woman that marries Billy, she'll be humped back from reaching in the bottom of the flower barrel. [all laugh] Oh Christ, what a bunch.

MEH: Never fill it up.

SH: Yeah, what a bunch.

Transcript at 54 minutes and 6 seconds: (54:06)

RM: Now, has any--no one ever does interviews like this around. Nobody has ever come up to you or anything.

SH: No. We always had tea at home made in a pot, and my dad was working in the mine. And this one day he was afternoon shift, and he came home. And my ma had that day found out that they made tea bags, and they were sewn across the top with a triple thread link. And then, it came out triple thread up to the label, the Salada Tea label. I think it was, or it was Lipton, one or the other. And so, my dad came home and had his tea. And the next morning, his--my ma says, “Well, how'd you like the tea last night?” He says, “Okay, but it took me a bloody hour to get that thing untied.” He thought—[all laugh] it really happened. He tried to untie it, you know, the tea bag. The tea was inside. It had to come out. Yeah.

MIH: His cup was full of tea leaves.

SH: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we Cousin Jacks, we don't catch on too fast. It takes us a while.

RM: Well, you know, I was--

Transcript at 55 minutes and 27 seconds: (55:27)

MIH: For Christmas, you always had a turkey. That was traditional at Thanksgiving. But for New Year's, we had ham, but they didn't have smoked ham. The hams were pickled. And oh, them were good. Remember them?

SH: I don't remember them.

MIH: You do.

MEH: Ma had that aluminum kettle with the hooks on top, and it spiked up.

SH: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MEH: And the ham was in there every New Year's. Pickled ham, we had.

MIH: Pickled ham.

RM: Oh, she would pickle the ham.

MEH: No, no. You bought it that way.

RM: It came that way.

MEH: And you put it in there, and you boil it.

MIH: And that's all you did was boil it, not bake it.

MEH: And take it out and let it cool.

RM: Yeah.

MIH: And then slice it.

MEH: Yeah. So, you hardly see them anymore, eh.

MIH: No.

MEH: I guess you can order them.

MIH: Yep.

RM: Pickled hams?

MEH: I think so. You can order pickled. I think Tommy Stanaway [phonetic spelling] has one every year yet.

MIH: Yeah, I think.

MEH: [inaudible word] Stanaway's brother?

MIH: I think Econo [Econo Foods] will fix you one if you want it.

RM: I’ve never heard of it before.

MIH: Oh, that.

MEH: For about 300 dollars, I'll cook the Hammis Alabamis [phonetic spelling].

SH: Hammis Alabamis with that syrup?

MEH: Basted with fish, yeah.

RM: Oh, for 300 dollars? [laughs]

MEH: And basting a ham with that is something. Oh, man.

SH: But you gotta just keep watching it don't get too hot. Otherwise, it'll get all scorched up.

MIH: Even bacon and smokies.

SH: Well, last time you done it was on a charcoal, eh?

MEH: Yeah. Had charcoal.

SH: And a grill and hardwood?

MEH: And hardwood, yeah.

SH: Yeah, charcoal's good, eh?

MIH: Oh, I guess so.

MEH: Yeah, that works.

Transcript at 57 minutes and 15 seconds: (57:15)

RM: Now, when you were growing up and all, you didn't--nobody was out making...

SH: No.

RM: …maple syrup.

SH: Everybody made their own little pot when they were kids, you know, but it never turned out that way.

MEH: You take it home and boil it on a stove and, well, you couldn't put in the time in your Ma's kitchen boiling sap.

SH: No.

RM: Oh, but the kids would do that.

SH: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think every kid has tried it at some point. Yeah.

MEH: You make a spout out of a Prince Albert tobacco can.

RM: Yeah.

MEH: Cut that out into a little spout and bend it and tap it into the tree where you made that hole.

SH: Yeah, and before you cook, you gotta throw the dead squirrels out of there and [all laugh] all that stuff.

MEH: Yeah.

MIH: Oh, we had fun.

MEH: The way we used to go.

MIH: Yeah, we made all our own equipment like scooters and that. We never even bought any bicycles. Never had any of that.

RM: Yeah.

MEH: Make a scooter out of wheels off a roller skate.

MIH: Yep. Toys. When did we ever get a toy? Oh. You get a toy, it was a shovel. Get out in the yard and go to work, boy.

MEH: I remember we had a singing top, didn't we?

MIH: Oh, yes.

MEH: Yeah, we had a singing top. I don't know if that was between all of us.

MIH: [laughs] I think so. Yep. Put that on the hardwood floor in the living room and crank it up and…

MEH: Let her go. She'd sing.

MIH: And then, there were them spiral tops. They'd walk on a piece of string.

MEH: Gyro.

MIH: Gyro, yeah. Yeah. You ever seen that?

MEH: When you hold a piece of string and put the top on there, and it would spin and walk up and down the string.

MIH: You wound a piece of string around the top, and you held the top against the floor and then pulled it, and that thing would spin and would stand up on a bottom real small like a pen there.

RM: And then you'd have to get it on the string.

MIH: Well, yeah, there's a groove up one side.

MEH: Yeah, you could pick it up and put it on the string.

RM: Oh.

MEH: The inside would revolve and the frame on the outside wouldn't.

RM: Oh, I see.

MEH: And it would lean over and back and forth. It would lean. It was on a gyro.

RM: Oh, okay. Okay, that's right. Yeah.

MIH: Yep.

Transcript at 59 minutes and 56 seconds: (59:56)

RM: Well, as I said, you give me a lot of--you know, just sitting here talking--you give me a lot of interesting insights into growing up in Negaunee.

MEH: And the bottle flight. Remember the bottle flights?

MIH: Oh, there was--I don't know if you want to hear about this or not--but it was when they had the Carp River Forge. You know about that?

RM: Yeah.

MIH: And me and Merty were down there fishing one time to where the--I don't know if they had a blast furnace in that rock where they made pig iron, and there was a hillside full of shale. Now, whether that shale came from rock out of the iron ore, I don't know, but I was walking across it one day, and I seen a sudden glint on something in that shale. And I pulled it out, and it was a bottle, and that was one of the bottles. I don't know if you ever see them with a wire thing around the top and a clamp that pulled down and it had a stopper in them, and that was in that shale and it was in perfect shape. And the caption on it was, “The best I ever was” on the bottom, embossed.

SH: Didn't say what was in the bott-- [tape cuts]